serious problems with Phosphates??

dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
I have some major issues with Phospahtes.
I have performed several daily 15% water changes the last one today being 50%. These drop the phosphate levels some just to after a while get back up.
So something in my tank is seriously producing Phosphates.
Plan is to break down the complete tank and clean everything out
Now the question
How to clean out the rocks and sand bed which is a mix of sand and crushed stone.
STONES: Should I treat with Muriatic acid or would bleach or vinegar do?
SANDBED: Rinse out or also treat with something?
Will clean the entire ******** of the tank with vinegar.
Please help would like to start doing this today
Thanks guys
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
That seems to be a really hurried freak out. Start from the top, get a new phosphate kit, and test your water somewhere else, like your lfs. If both test confirm it, well than you know for sure you got a problem. The problem I can see, maybe others will disagree, is that you have both sand and crushed coral, and enough waste breaks down in there to produce phosphates. Vacuum it very well, and take a power head, and clean your rocks. Take a turkey baster, and blow all the ditritus out of the holes in the rocks. If you must, you could vacuum the rocks also. What filter do you have? Did you try a phosphate sponge. It seems excesive to tear the whole tank down, when it could be fairly easy fixed. In this hobby, patience is the key, rushed decisions, for most part lead to more problems, or disasters.
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
In a pet store, every pet store, you could find a vacuum thingy, its a hose with a tube, i am sure you have seen it. They do a good job getting all the crap out. Sand sifting stars do that, but in home aquarium they usually starve. Sand sifting fish, do not like crushed coral, its too big for them, besides they like to sit in the sand. Washing your tank will not solve the phospahtes issues, you might be over feeding the fish, or using phosphate rich food like flake food. How is your cleaning crew?
 
dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
dont realy have a large cleaning crew.
Have 2 cleaner shrimps thats about it. used to have plenty small snails (taken from the local beach) but they keep crawling out.
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
How large is your tank? Protein skimmer? Do you have lots of algea growing? If you could give all the detail about your tank, it would make things a bit easier. Phosphate kits are notorious to be wrong, so there is a chance that is what is happening. The two cleaner shrimp is small, unless you have a nano tank. Starfish like to eat ditritus, so they would help, plus they look cool. Serpant starfish are good to have, mine always comes out during feeding, so some left overs go to it.
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
One thing is that really glaring to me is the sand bed. I wonder if the sand fills all the holes that the crushed coral creates, or is it losely packed. If so, that would be the cause of high phosphates and nitrates. Personally, I hate CC, but others stand by it.
 
dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
tank is 150gl I do have a sump set up with a skimmer in it. I do have an outbreak of brown hair algae (still short) which my 2 blue tangs are eating of.
All other tests are good Amonia and Nitrites are at 0 Nitrates sit at 5. Calcium is very high though. PH 8.2
lighting 3X150W MHDE 4X80W blue T5
I currently have no corals in the tank only clowns (11), the 2 blue tangs and one goby.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member

Do not break down your tank, all that does is stop it from maturing, which takes about a year. It would be like starting all over without the cycle.
Get some Maidens hair or some marine plant along those lines that fish won’t eat. They feed on phosphates and will naturally bring them down. The big plus is it looks great in the tank.
If you are feeding frozen foods, rinse it in RO water after it thaws, use a fish net. Frozen foods are high in phosphates. For the moment and as a quick fix until you can get the Maidens hair, use a product like Phosban Pro or Phosphate-E …It won’t help to dose the tank if you don’t eliminate the cause because it will come back. The maiden hair will help balance out the tank and stop the cycle.
Macroalgae will do the same thing, but unless you can separate it, the fish will gobble it right up.
 
dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
would it be advisable to empty my overflow box now
see below how it is designed
now would it make sense to put Cheato in the area under my outflow to my sump so it would be separated from all living critters?
Also could the bioballs have anything to do with the high phospahtes?
 
dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
Read the article before thats why I thought to start all over again and get everything out?
But maybe I could go the patience way? will be adding cheato to my system and add a phosphate media and see what happens after that.
Stired up the sandbed today to try and get rid of some dirt and stuff. Skimmer went balistic but Phosph level didnt drop nothing.
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
Brown algae is connected to silicates, nothing to worry about it comes and goes, just try to control it next time you get it. Phosphate sponge will take the silicates out, once the phosphates are way down.
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
Ok, so you have a 150 gl tank, 11 clowns, two regal tangs ( bass of the seas), and two cleaner shrimp to clean the waste (which they do as they please). I am not sure what the impact of the mixed sand bed is, but you have no cleaning crew. What is not eaten, just sits there dirties up the water.
 
dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
if that would be the problem shouldnt be my nitrites and nitrates be an issue not to talk about ammonia?
but all 3 readings are at 0 only phosphates are way off
 
ajroc31

ajroc31

Member
No, your bio filter could do a great job of controlling it. I have phosphate issues and my nitrate is 0. "Flake fish food is typically about 1% phosphorus (3% phosphate equivalent) by weight (and many products have such phosphorus data on their labels). Consequently, if five grams of flake food is added to a 100-gallon aquarium, there is the potential for the inorganic orthophosphate level to be raised by 0.4 ppm in that SINGLE FEEDING!"
 
dirk_brijs

dirk_brijs

Member
food I am adding is definatly high on Phophates I tried a little test tube with some water and some of the food flakes inside (just 2) and the phosphate levels went through the roof.
So I guess now it is vacuming my sandbed adding cheato and install some media in the tank right?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by dirk_brijs
http:///forum/post/3299605
food I am adding is definatly high on Phophates I tried a little test tube with some water and some of the food flakes inside (just 2) and the phosphate levels went through the roof.
So I guess now it is vacuming my sandbed adding cheato and install some media in the tank right?

Do not vacuum the sand bed...it contains the good bacteria that eats the nitrates. Dose your tank with a phosphate remover and use a different food. Now that you know what caused the phosphates..just get rid of them and not pollute your tank with that food anymore.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
I agree with fowler that you should not break down your tank.
After all the work if you do the same thing all over again you will have phosphates.
As you have found out water changes will not control phosphates just limit the amount.
To get phosphates to 0 (or nitrates) you have to consume those as they are being generated.
To maintain calcium you need to add calcium as it is be consumed.
etc etc etc.
Phosphates IME are the last thing to come down in a new system. (at least in mine anyway).
The best thing is to keep macro algaes growing strong to consume the phosphates. And to kill the lights to kill off any cyano and return nitrates to the macros.
Some even do a very low level of nitrate dosing to keep nitrates at 5ppm. that helps prevent nitrate starvation and keep the macro growing.
A little kalk in the top off water may help as well.
I also dissolve a ferris gluconate capsule in a 12 oz soda jar and then dose a capfull each week. To provide a very low level of iron to help keep the macros growing.
my .02
 
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