setting up a new 300 gal, need some advice on equipment

[docdubz]

I will be purchasing my new tank on my next day off from school (thursday). I havent decided what I want to stock it with yet, but one of the options that I am considering would be a bamboo shark, a lionfish, and maybe a tang. Basically I want to have a filtration system beefy enough that I can keep that option open whether or not i decide to actually get the shark.
For the sump, I was thinking of getting the biggest plastic tub that I can fit under the stand (the plastic pond tubs that LFS's use for their filtration systems) there are several things that I am unsure of though:
1) How big of a wet/dry filter and protein skimmer would I need? (I would assume that I should get the biggest that I can fit)
2) Is building a DIY wet/dry a worthwhile venture or should I just fork up the money?
3) Are their any pumps and/or heaters out there that are specifically designed for fish with sensitivity to metal (sharks)?
thanks for any input

 

[acrylic51]

Honestly I'd go bigger than 300 gallon. I've seen minimum recommendations of 150 gallon. I've also seen where they can reach 40", IMO do leave a lot of room. Just my thoughts!!!!

 

[snakeblitz33]

Here's my thoughts:
1. Need to go bigger, as Acrylic stated.
2. You need to do more research online and in books.
3. You probably will need to custom build your own sump
4. Invest in a very, very good filtration system.
5. Consider a fish room behind your tank to hold all the equipment.
6. research even harder.

 

[king_neptune]

I Diy whenever I can. this system is mostly DIY:

You save a LOT of money when you DIY!
You don't have to compromise.
See that fuge up above?
Thats a $20 CL special! Throw in another $20 in silicon and cut glass from Lowes and I had a banging fuge/sump to do my filtration.
$6 light fixture, $8 bulb. $70 pump to feed it. Viola! Chaeto and LR city!
I added a brand new SWC 180 skimmer almost a year later from a local Reefer that sold it to me wholesale, $160.
You dont have to go all out right off the bat, you can build your system slowly over a long period of time.
I didnt spend a fortune on my 235g system. I kept my eyes open and did as much as I could myself. It took me a while to assemble all the parts, but nothing good ever happens fast in this hobby, just the bad stuff. Just be patient and keep your eyes open for good deals.

 

[travelerjp98]

I agree with what a lot of people have said on here. I am following this thread.
But, this hobby takes time more than anything.
Do a lot of research before anything.
IMO, since your new to this hobby, I would start with a smaller tank, such as 75, 100, or 125 gal.
You could always upgrade later. I say this because getting the equipment for it and fine-tuning it is going to be a lot more expensive with a bigger system.
Good luck.

 

[acrylic51]

I agree with King....I'm a big DIY, that's most of the fun IMHO.....Might take me forever, but I get exactly what I want in the end. The reason I questioned the OP is I'm assuming a standard 300 gallon tank.....No way would that be a suitable tank IMO.....Something for a shark I'd prefer or would think something wider (front to back) and longer than 8'. I do understand the post was a bit general, but a shark is a rather large undertaking.....
Equipment wise I don't think there needs to be anything special or outrageous though....Equipment on larger setups are more costly, but you know that getting into the game. A good skimmer IMO would be key for water quality......Lighting wouldn't necessarily have to be top notch though. Bottom line, just need to really research the requirements needed to house the animal.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yeah, skimp on the lights and go for the largest, biggest, most bad A** skimmer you can afford. I also DIY a bunch of my stuff and save a ton of money. The stand that I am building for my tank now would have probably cost me quite a penny if I were to buy it in a store, but I saved a bunch of money.
You might could save some money DIYing your own protein skimmer. I got a 1hp air blower that I was thinking of using for a couple of 6ft tall skimmers in the future...

 

[eric b 125]

Neptune, haven't seen you in a while!

 

[king_neptune]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric B 125 http:///t/389329/setting-up-a-new-300-gal-need-some-advice-on-equipment#post_3440535
Neptune, haven't seen you in a while!
Hey Eric,
I'm at the UW Institute of Technology. Its been brutally hard these last few months especially.
I really haven't had much time to think about anything reef keeping, I stopped web surfing and forums pretty much entirely.
My system is in its established routine(and significantly automated) and I don't have to spend much more than an hour a week total.
I'm in finals week right now. Since Ive secured a 3.6(maybe even a 3.8 if I do really good on my Stats final) for the quarter so I decided to reward myself and do what I enjoy ^_^
Ill be around for about 3 more weeks, but I got Calculus next quarter so Ill probably disappear again for a while.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And to OP:
Read up on scrubbers and see if that's something that interests you. Some will say that's a little more advanced, but IMO the exact opposite. They are noob friendly because if you do the research and set up one proper, you will find that it will adjust according to your own stupid noob mistakes. What I mean is, they will increase production if you do things like overfeed/overstock.
The more you pollute your water the stronger they get. To a point, they aren't invincible.
Don't take what I said as an insult(noob comments I mean), I'm speaking from experience. My first system Incorporated a scrubber, and for me 6-10 nitrates was a bad day. I give the scrubber full credit. Had it not been for that, I would have probably had much higher levels of nasty stuff. I also saw all kinds of pods that have since been drastically cut since I do skimming now. As for skimmer vs scrubber. I hate that argument, its like bare bottom vs sand. Accept that they are different, and there are pros and cons each way.
I personally don't scrub anymore. I prefer skimming. If I had to do it all over again, I would still have set up a scrubber on my first system, I really don't regret it.
And I didnt really want to say much on my opinions of a shark, but since were being candid....don't do it as a first tank. Ive seen fish stores with 700g systems kill sharks.
They are what I consider a little more advanced and have specialized needs. Impossible? No not at all, I think with enough research, dedication, and $$$, just about anyone can do anything right off the bat. Most fail because they are lacking in one of the three...which is why everyone calls for caution. If your wanting to pick up a 300g system today go for it. I didn't pour my first bucket of saltwater till almost 2 years after getting into this hobby. Fact. You can spend the next 2 months easily reading and collecting the foundation pieces for your system. Rushing in will frustrate you in the end. Coming to a forum and asking for questions is the first and most important step. Outdone only by following what others themselves practice.
Look into titanium heaters to answer your questions about sharks. I dont know much about them myself. but I dont think off the top of my head if I can recall ever hearing that sharks have specific heater needs. But if your concerned, then titanium would be my best guess. Non magnetic, and that would probably be what would set off a shark.

 

[docdubz]

Hey all, thanks for the replies. I should have been more specific, this is not my first tank. When I was younger I kept a 30 gal Reef (without a sump, and still managed to keep water quality spot on), and a 75 FO system and Im not a stranger to fish that require an expert level of care. But then i joined the military and wasted 4 years of fish keeping plus being blown up isnt exactly good for your memory so theres a couple of areas where what I remember about the hobby is kinda foggy. Im not dead set on getting a shark, but between my experience in the hobby and from working at the best LFS that I know of by me (which had multiple shark/ray tanks) I am sure enough that I would be able to handle it to wager the $2000 that I put aside to get this project started.
I actually am more than likely going to assemble the tank myself, when I picked 300 gal I figured about double the minimum tank requirements would be good. Im basically trying to brush up on all the knowledge I used to have on the hobby (and research the care of the fish I want) but researching things online has got to be my weakest skill, I can never find the information that Im looking for. That and EVERY site that Ive been able to find for care information on bamboo/other species of sharks seem to contradict the hell out of what they are saying (for instance one site said minimum tank size 180, three sentences later, minimum tank size 450, a paragraph later minimum tank size 150)

.
When I am done assembling the filtration system for this tank, my goal is to have it able to handle more than the bioload that is going to be in there, this way water quality is not an issue. The questions in my OP were poorly worded. What I should have asked was: would a DIY wet/dry filter be as efficient as a commercially available one? How large of a protein skimmer should I get? Being that any trace amount of metal/stray electricity in the tank could eventually cause the shark to stop/or never begin feeding are there any pumps that are specifically designed to limit this?
thanks all

 

[king_neptune]

You can do just as good with a DIY wet/dry if thats what you want. Personally its way more satisfying IMO to build one anyways.
As for tank size, its all relative I spose. My dad had a tang in his nano-cube for almost a year. So for someone to claim 150g is good for a shark....well...yeah....
But lets be realistic...a bamboo shark can get past 30" easy. How much room do you think a 300g tank will have for it? If you dont mind it only being able to pace 4x its body length for the rest of its life then go for it. However, there is a work around for this solution. One of the local reefers in my area did a shark tank that Incorporated a larger industrial grade power head that created a pretty potent "Jet-Stream" across the middle of his tank. The shark could jump in and out of this stream as needed. It actually proved pretty useful, it would jump in and swim against the current all the time. I believe the current it created was approximately 18" wide at its strong point. Its an old build, but it might still be around. I can see if he still has a link.
As for the other questions...look into tunze pumps. They use plastic and titanium on the parts that are exposed to water. However like most high end pumps...they are magnetic. I would imagine that would send some kind of signal that would mess up the animal. But honestly, Im just grasping here, I really dont know much about sharks so sorry I cant really help.
Protein skimmers for that size can hit $500 easy for an entry level unit. You can pay thousands more for a top end. I like SWC skimmers. I think the Sicce pumps that come stock are not as hot as folks like to make them out to be. But a cheap mod can pretty much double your LPH if not more....

 

[docdubz]

Neptune, good to know. I wasnt sure if how easy it would be to make a wet/dry that would be on par with commercial brands.
I was thinking about the limitations of the 300 gals surface area not allowing the shark room to move freely. And I came up with an idea that would increase the area. My idea was to construct an elevated bottom out of plexiglass, with a lip to allow it to hold sand. Supported by pvc piping and 'hidden' with some live rock epoxied to the edge visible from the front of the tank. so this would provide roughly +50% of bottom surface area for the shark to explore, plus a hidden cave system.
Would it be unreasonable to suggest that maybe I could stick to a strict feeding schedule and feed no more and no less than what the shark requires to remain healthy in an effort to curb the growth rate of the shark (as is sometimes done by the owners of large snakes such as boa constrictors?)
I was planning on getting the protein skimmer after the tanks initial cycle is done. So that will give me a month to save more money and get a really top of the line skimmer right off the bat. The first addition to the tank would be some cheap inverts, then a lion fish, then the shark this way by the time it is in the tank and filters are ready for a bit of a jump in bioload.

 

[snakeblitz33]

First of all, thank you for serving our country.
I agree with most everything that Neptune has said so far. I'm not sure about your plexiglass concept though. I like neptunes jet stream idea from his friends tank. That makes the most sense to me.
For skimmers, if you want top of the line, look into deltec, swc, precision marine, bubble king and some high end octopus skimmers. I also suggest backing your filtration ip with a scrubber. You can definitely use both forms. Also, make sure doing water changes is super easy, especially with such a large system.

 

[acrylic51]

Agree with a lot that was mentioned earlier....There are tons of options or ways of doing things.......I'll start pump wise....economically speaking Tunze wouldn't flow you what you want necessarily. I'd suggest looking into the Reeflo line of pumps. Bottom line the movement you want, the load you want a bit more juice for the money. Wet dry's or DIY sump systems are debatable to a point or degree. Personally I wouldn't buy a store bought system unless it was being custom built by a quality builder....There are a few out there that specialize in those sort of things. Honestly you could build your own and design it exactly to fit your needs. It's not hard or complicated and yes the satisfaction of doing it yourself is a big key.......Plenty of good threads around that can get you headed in the right direction as to design and setup.
Skimmers......Again in this area I wouldn't skimp on, but also reading "feeding no more or less".....Theoretically sounds good, but lets be honest with ourselves.....Just won't happen......

I do suggest a good quality skimmer.....$500 is a far stretch from what you pay on a quality skimmer for a system of this design. I will not and wouldn't advocate building your own skimmer. Regardless of what people state or think their is more design work than what actually meets the eye. There were a few skimmer choices mentioned that are very good.....Different styles as well. If your looking for something more on the lines of plug and play I'd suggest the Reef Octopus.....I personally prefer the cone design....SWC is another excellent option a bit cheaper than Reef Octopus but quality doesn't suffer. The issue with the Sicce pumps has been resolved, so that shouldn't be an issue. Sicce pumps are quality pumps, and people must remember that none of this equipment per say was specifically designed for our uses......We actually tailor it to "our" needs, so yes there will be at times initial bugs with items......Bubble King.....super nice skimmers; quality workmanship and the RedDragon pumps incredible, but I couldn't warranty $1000 plus for the skimmer, when there's nothing actually proven they skim better.......Deltec again excellent skimmer, design etc.....but price is killer again, when the first 2 mentioned skimmers are of equal IMHO.....Then you have Beckett style skimmers......These skimmers aren't plug and play per say. They do need tweaking to keep them running at their peak. With that said, they are designed to skim or process more water per say than a needle wheel skimmer......They require bigger pumps to drive the becketts, and if you were to go this route, I'd opt looking at an MRC, Barrs is another, but has their name changed, company sold, and Precision Marine would be my last to consider. All comes down to quality and what I'm getting for my money, and Precision doesn't offer what I consider bang for the buck.......
You had mentioned building a false floor in the DT.....This adds another area you'd have to address with water flow, quality inside the DT. With adding a false floor you significantly cut down, or reduce the flow inside the DT that you'd have to address in the design stages to prevent massive dead spots within the DT. LR presents the same issues, so with adding the false floor, I'm sure you would encounter the same sort of thing, but there are ways around that issue as well.
Bottom line is this setup will take lots of planning and ingenuity IMO, but could be done!!!!!!!!