Shark?

[zeke92]

The first time i was ever on this forumw as with an account named something like bamboo_kitten_shark or something, when i was looking for a place to ask shark questions. I lost that account and i gave up on sharks.
But now i wonder, in the more near future, if there is a possibility.
Please don't reply if your just gonna say "i think sharks shouldn't be kept/they belong in the open ocean/etc".
Anyway ever since i was little i always dreamed of having a shark. Thye jsut fascinate me and i would die if i had one (hopefully not literally). I've done all the research before but i have a few questions.
IF i could talk my dad into getting a small pool of some sort in the garage...how large would it need to be.
What is the names of every small shark that can be kept? I'd love a horn shark but i think they get too big for a small pool right?
I'm gonna do some more research but i really hope i can talk my dad into it. We never use the garage for cars and it's just trash in there basically. There is plenty of room for some sort of small pool. And i bet i could work out a deal to help my chances (keep garage clean).
Whats the aproximate price of this?
I know i need lots of sand (right?) and tons of live rock..
I'm gonna draw up a few plans while i wait for replies.

 

[zeke92]

Ok here is some better questions in a clean style.
1. Whats the cheapest sand i can use that will work? And of course has no copper?
2. How large should i have one for a bamboo cat shark?
3. How many lbs of rock?
4. Can i use dead rock and just seed it with some live rock? It's mostly the bacteria in a shark tank that matters, not the plants and other stuff?
5. Will plants help keep any tiny traces of copper out of the water as well?
6. How long does it need to cycle for a shark?
Thats about it for now. If somoene could answer that it would be great. I can't sleep, i'm bored, and emailing my father about why we should do this and need some price ideas and such

 

[justinwwwallin]

it will not be cheap i can tell u that. i was gonna turn my brothers old room into a shark pond.. i had the siding and everything made for free. then i realized how much filtration, lights, rock, skiming, sand, water, salt, sharks.
but i really dont have many answers for this. im only 15 so im not the best person to reply. i just thought i would share my story

 

[zeke92]

I'm only 15 too, but i have no life and i go to online school so i have WAY too much time on my hands. Therefore i have soo much time to read up on stuff.
But the questions i asked aren't things i can find easily on google.
I know it will be expensive but my dad is good at being..well, cheap. So i'm looking for cheap sand and wondering if i can save money on buying mostly dead rock to start it out.

 

[justinwwwallin]

ah. well if u look on the reef page i posted pics of my 150 gallon tank.
i used about 2 or 3 inches of quikrete play sand from home depot. like 3 dollars for 50 pounds or something. its real fine sand but i also did a inch layer of the good stuff.
ha same here though im home schooled so i can read up alot and learn. hopefully gonna go to california for marine biology.

 

[justinwwwallin]

and for live rock.. what i did was check craigs list EVERY day for live rock. and right as u get a deal jump on it. just today i got about 2000 dollars in rock and coral for 450 bucks!!!

 

[krj-1168]

Well - like it's already been said - it won't be cheap. However - it not only possible to keep - but in some case successful breed some species of sharks in private shark ponds. Generally the best sharks for most private aquarists are benthic (bottom-dwelling species) that grow from about at 24-42" in length. And they generally require tanks with about 20-45 sq.ft or ponds with a diameter of 5-8 ft. to keep a single adult in depending on the exact species.
These groups include the following -
Bamboo Sharks (aka Bamboo cat sharks, by LFS) - at least 3 species fairly common - ranging from 30-42" in length. There are also 3 other species that tend to be fairly rare but are known to grow to about 24-30" in length. These tend to be tropical species that prefer waters of about 72-82F
- Brown banded Bamboo (Chiloscyllium punctatum) reachs about 40-42", most common species. Often called "Banded cat shark" in LFS.
- White-spotted Bamboo (Chiloscyllium plagiosum) reachs about 36-37", 2nd most common species. Often called "Marbled Bamboo" at LFS.
- Gray Bamboo (Chiloscyllium griseum) reachs 30" .
Epaulettes - 1 species fairly common which reachs about 42". There is a couple of other species that grow to about 28-36" , but these at present are very rare in captivity. These species tend to be tropical preferring water temps of about 72-84F
- Common Epaulette (Hemiscyllium ocellatum) grows to 42". only fairly common species.
Horn Sharks - at least 1 species that are fairly common, range in size from about 38-40" in length. With at least 4 more species that reach 48" or more in total length. Horn Sharks tend to be Temperate to sub-tropical species.
- California Horn Shark (Heterodontus francisci) also called the Horn Shark, grows to about 38-40". Prefers water temps of about 65-75F
Coral Catsharks - 2 known species, that reach about 24-27" in length, They tend to be tropical species, that prefer water temps of 74-84F.
- Coral Catshark (Atelomycterus marmoratus) - grows to 27".
- Australian Marbled Catshark (Atelomycterus macleayi) - grows to 24"
Wobbegongs - 1 species that grows to 42", that is a sub-tropical to tropical species. Although there are at least 2 other known species which are very rare that stay under 36". And at least 2 addition species that grow between 42-60" in length.
- Japanese Wobbegong (Orectolobus japonicus) - grows to 40-42", prefers water temps of 63-78F.

 

[prime311]

You're probly looking at several thousand dolllars minimum for just setting it up and then another $100+/month in food, electricity, salt, etc... just to give you a ballpark

 

[zeke92]

I know it won't be cheap i was just asking cheaper options to lower the price a bit.
I was thinking a 200 or 250 gallon pond with like a 100gallon refugium tub? Would that be enough?
I'd love a horn shark but i think raising a shark from an egg would be interesting and the only eggs i can find are for bamboos. I'll keep an eye out though.
And i definatly do not want to breed sharks, atleast not yet hehe.
My dad said we will talk when he gets home, not "I'll tell you no when i get home" or just simply no

Can anyone answer the following though?
1. Whats the cheapest sand i can use that will work? And of course has no copper?
2. How large should i have one for a bamboo cat shark?
3. How many lbs of rock?
4. Can i use dead rock and just seed it with some live rock? It's mostly the bacteria in a shark tank that matters, not the plants and other stuff?
5. Will plants help keep any tiny traces of copper out of the water as well?
6. How long does it need to cycle for a shark?
7. Should i get a baby or an egg?
8. This might sound wierd but is it possible to get in the pond with the young shark to get it used to humans and such or is there something on our bodies that could cause problems? I figure this is a big N.O. but i thought i'd ask anyway. I mean who doesn't wanna swim with a shark hehe

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2764967
1. Whats the cheapest sand i can use that will work? And of course has no copper?
2. How large should i have one for a bamboo cat shark?
3. How many lbs of rock?
4. Can i use dead rock and just seed it with some live rock? It's mostly the bacteria in a shark tank that matters, not the plants and other stuff?
5. Will plants help keep any tiny traces of copper out of the water as well?
6. How long does it need to cycle for a shark?
7. Should i get a baby or an egg?
8. This might sound wierd but is it possible to get in the pond with the young shark to get it used to humans and such or is there something on our bodies that could cause problems? I figure this is a big N.O. but i thought i'd ask anyway. I mean who doesn't wanna swim with a shark hehe

1) Sand will be pretty cheap if you don't use live sand. You can get away with Home Depot sand for probably less than $100. The problem with this type of sand, though is that there is no bacteria in it so you are looking at a long cycle for that size pond, and the tank really won't have a stable, fully cycled sand bed for at least 6 months.
2) For a bamboo or two, I'd go with nothing less than a 300 gallon. Rubbermaid makes one that is 60" in diameter and is about $220 or so.
3) You probably want 100-200 lbs of liverock for filtration but you have to make sure that they are aquascaped properly. You need caves and very stable structures because benthic sharks are notorious for collapsing rock structures and forcing their way through the rocks. Collapsed rock structures have killed many sharks in aquariums.
4) Some dead rock with live rock is ok but then you are still looking at a longer cycle and less stability for the first 6-8 months of the tank's existence.
5) Copper should not be an issue... if you never add it to the tank, it will not be present. If there was copper in the tank, plants will not remove it.
6) 2 to 3 months for a 300 gallon to cycle, depending on the method you use and the amount of ammonia added initially.
7) Personal preference. Eggs are more difficult to assure a live, healthy pup. A baby that is already eating is a better option, IMO.
8) Swim with a shark???? This question shows your age (no offense). When any part of your body goes into an aquarium, all the debris, perspiration, hygene products, etc leeches into the tank. In such a small environment, it would be very simple to pollute the tank because you put on deoderant 10 hours earlier. VERY BAD IDEA!!
Now that I've answered your questions, let me tell you what you don't want to hear. At 15 years old, you are likely to have this animal for a short period of time only. In the next couple of years, you will be either moving out, leaving for college, or will simply get tired of this animal (which is more exciting in theory than in reality). Furthermore, having this pond in the garage assures that you will not have a decent place to sit and watch the tank. You will also rarely see much of the shark based on the necessity of viewing from above. In the garage, your shark tank will be subject to temperature fluctuations and other dust/debris.
Feel free to dismiss this opinion if you wish but my words will someday ring true to you. IMO, if you aren't old enough to have your own place then you should not have a large system. Take a look at all the people on here who have had sharks/rays (including myself). Large tanks/ponds require thousands of dollars in equipment and maintenance and hundreds of hours of work to get this done. Some have plumbed through their houses, some have had to build enclosures for the systems. IMO, if you have to ask dad for a shark tank then you shouldn't have one. And if he's smart, he'll say no anyway. This is too much of a commitment to realistically expect when you live in someone else's house. Hope you do the mature thing and wait until you are in a better situation to get an animal like this. Good luck.

 

[zeke92]

I'm 15, meaning, it will be 3-4 years before i go to college and most likely i will go to the one about 30 minutes from here (for now atleast) and may or may not get an apartment. If i have a shark still to take care of i will probably just stay here unless my parents wish me to get an apartment. Which i will find a solution then. If nothing else i would definatly find it a good owner that could take care of it.
The garage i would keep clean if i had a tank of course. I wouldn't allow dust and debris to be all over the place to get into the tank.
Oh, and the quesiton with being in the pool was just a non-importent question i was wodnering. I figured there would be debris on the body to cause problems even if we showered before hand, i was just wondering if it would be possible to get it used to humans so it wouldn't be shy from a baby.
Um what else..oh, what does age have to do with being able to care for a shark? Can a 15 year old not feed and care for a large system as well as a 30 year old?
Now, temperature fluctuations won't be a problem. The garage, according to my father, has a heater and air conditioning in it, we have just never needed it on.
Just because i'm 15 doesn't mean i don't KNOW this will be a huge commitment. I don't have to worry about school (or a life for that matter) to get in the way of caring for a large system and a delicate animal.
Now, before you reply saying something like "Well i was just trying to help you immature @*$&" i want to say:
I KNOW your just thinking whats best for the animal. Everyone on here does. But i'm just saying i will not get bored of it, and probably not move out till later on if i still have one to care for. And that i will be committed, as well as my father, to keeping the system going and clean.
I've already thought of problems in the garage and thought of solutions. Right now i can't think of any problems i would have keeping a shark in there atm.
We have stuff to keep temperature form flucuations.
I have all the time in the world to care for it.
I have the resources.
I have the knowledge, although i will still get a book or two to read aswell.
I know it will take lots of time, money, and commitment, but fi you have had a dream since you were 5 to care for one of these creatures, don't you think commitment and time would mean nothing to you? It would give me something to do during the day besides the computer. Not saying the shark is just entertainment though.
I'm not trying to get defensive and i'm not saying your stupid or anything like that (making sure there is no misunderstandings like in the past). I'm just saying i have the money, the time, and the commitment. I wouldn't even think of a shark if i was in school or planning to move in the near future.

 

[zeke92]

~cricket~
It's quiet..
Here are some new questions i thought of in my thinking chair (AKA Four Wheeler)
1. What type of pool? Do we make it out of wood and pond liner? Rubbermaid? What works best?
I forgot the other questions now...
Also, the rock will be in the 100gallon refugium. I don't want to risk it getting scratched from sharp rock. I might put some smooth fake rock in there for food to hide but I probably will just leave it open sand.

 

[zeke92]

2. Would it be smart or dumb to put a few saltwater mollies in the pool to breed? Will it eat mollies as snacks? I figure they would be helpful clean-up crew and also help cycle and be snacks but i wasn't for sure?
3. Is white shrimp good for the majority of it's diet? I thought we would buy about 85-100 to put in the refugium (babies at first) to breed. I know they are canibbles(sp?) but hopefully all the rock and eel grass in the refuge will help lower the eaten rate.

 

[hlcroghan]

It is obvious that you are really interested in do this. I commend you for this.
A couple things. I would get a a pup like it was stated before. Ones straight out of the egg have the habit of not eating.
The shark needs places to hide sometimes. They are nocturnal. Bright light will scare them and add stress so it could not only be sand.
Remember if you do this, you cannot have anything around the tank like cleaning product, fuels, car fluids, construction materials etc. I am saying this only because it is a garage. Do you think your dad won't ever use it for anything else??
Also remember unless you have glass sides on the tank, you prolly won't hardly ever see the shark. Unfortunate but true.
Personally I think it would be a lot cooler to have a large tank in the house with some bigger more active colorful fish that you can look at all the time. I don't know, I don't spend a lot of time in my garage. JMO though.

 

[zeke92]

Of course, we can keep all those sorts of things at the other garage (the one where my freshwater fish are).
So it will definatly need some caves and such? I imagine it would have to be fairly big for a shark. At my LFS they have fake rounded rock i can use for it, they would be perfect.
And i don't spend much time in this speciific garage either but if i had a shark i would be in there hours a day heh. It shouldn't be hard to clean the garage either. We would have to clean it first of all and thne move all boxes and such to one side so i can spray and sweep the side the pool would go on to get rid of debris and dust and such. I'd also need to spray a bunch of bug spray to lighten the bug-load hehe.
And i was thinking of solutions to see the shark more often. I was wondering if we got some sort of hard plastic tank or something if it would e possible to cut out 'windows' and glue clear plastic or glass in these windows. I'm sure my dad and me can think of something that would allow more viewing. But even if we can't i can always watch it from above some.
I have a 55g in my room with a puffer and a few smaller fish, but i've been wanting to do something more...exciting lately. Watching a shark Vs. watching a bunch of little fish, easy win

 

[zeke92]

BTW this is the plan for the refugium (100g) i was talking about. And it will be on a table a bit above the pool. A pump will run water up to it and there will be a place cut out so there will be a ramp heading to the pool where it drops down into the pool at the same speed of how much water is going in. So it will be like an overflow going from the refuge to the tank. Causing oxygenation at the same time

 

[justinwwwallin]

ive learned that yes a shark pond is cool. but if u can get a better deal on an actual tank it will be way better. not saying its not a good idea but i think if your already gonna spend that much u should just look for used tanks for cheap so u can actually watch the sharks. just my opinion

 

[zeke92]

Were going the cheapest way we can and i'm pretty sure my dad would rather buy a pool or make one rather then buy an extremely expensive humongous 300+ gallon glass tank.

 

[rotarymagic]

The reason a 30 year old can care for a shark better than a 15 year old is stability because typically a 30year old has MUCH higher access to money and is more stable in regards to location. Sharks shouldn't be moved very often if at all. As far as a rubber maid tub, you may get tired of the top down view if you never get to see it from the side too. The liverock IS the biological filtration, don't forget the protein skimmer too. You'll need a UV sterilizer, protein skimmer, phosphate, and nitrate reactor or other means for exporting these things from the aquarium. I don't know of any hobbyist that keep sharks in small tanks or without LOTS of money dumped in. You will need electronic monitoring of water parameters because the tank must be stable at all times. epoxying rocks would be better than just stacking because it'll hold the shapes better incase the shark(s) try to push through.
A skimmer for your setup even used will be a minimum of $700 for a 400gallon setup which is the minimum you'll want because you'll get bored of only one cat shark and these animals are messy eaters and lots of food in=lots of waste out. The skimmer will get dissolved organics out of the water quicker so they don't turn to ammonia and eventually nitrates.

 

[krj-1168]

Ok - while planning ahead is always a good thing. You also need to remember that you really may not want to put a small pup under 12" long in a 300 gallon tank/pond. The poor little shark may burn too much energy in search for it's food.
So really it all depends on what type and size of shark you start with. For example a Bamboo shark can grow from a 5-6" newborn pup to a fully mature adult that is about 85% of maximum adult size in as little as 4 years. While in the same 4 year span - a Horn Shark may only grow from a newborn pup of about 6" to a mature adult at only 24-27".
Also by starting with a juvenile - you can upgrade to a larger tank or pond as needed, instead of just jumping into a large system. Still any tank for a small pup should have enough room to keep it in for at least 1 year before it needs to upgrade to a larger system.