Shocking results
- Thread starter toosalty
- Start date
reefraff
Active Member
You need to have each ground wire from the power cord attached to the ballast it is powering. Just hook them up where you have the green wire connecting the 3 ballasts together.
As far as the tingle from the reflectors when the lamps are running that is normal. Fluorescent lamps emit electricity around them like any other electrical device. This is how you can get "stray" voltage in tanks caused by pumps etc.
As far as the tingle from the reflectors when the lamps are running that is normal. Fluorescent lamps emit electricity around them like any other electrical device. This is how you can get "stray" voltage in tanks caused by pumps etc.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by TooSalty
http:///forum/post/2757857
Well I grounded the ballast and now im not getting shocked anymore
. I also have noticed when im running the lights and touch the reflectors I feel a little tingle, but nothing serious. Here is the pic of the new wiring(I went with 14gauge just to be safe).
Looks like you are golden.
Electronic ballasts are notorious for introducing eddy currents on the ballast's case just like the lamps can do it in the reflectors as you found out. Electronic ballasts run the lamps at very high frequencies, usually about 45khz (as opposed to 60hz from a wall outlet). Inductive coupling (the cause of eddy currents) happens much more readily at higher frequencies. This is the reason why I maintain that even floating reflectors should be grounded, but as you've found out it's usually not a big deal if they aren't, apart from occasionally getting a tickle from one. Sometimes these eddy currents can be strong enough to throw a GFI, causing nuisance tripping that aquarists often complain about associated with their lighting systems.
Going into this, the problem with your ballast was either these currents or a hard ballast fault (a hot component touching the case internally, "electrifying" it). If it had been an hard fault, your breaker would have popped the moment you switched them on having grounded them. Since the problem simply went away, it was almost certainly eddy currents so you will not have any further issues.
http:///forum/post/2757857
Well I grounded the ballast and now im not getting shocked anymore
Looks like you are golden.
Electronic ballasts are notorious for introducing eddy currents on the ballast's case just like the lamps can do it in the reflectors as you found out. Electronic ballasts run the lamps at very high frequencies, usually about 45khz (as opposed to 60hz from a wall outlet). Inductive coupling (the cause of eddy currents) happens much more readily at higher frequencies. This is the reason why I maintain that even floating reflectors should be grounded, but as you've found out it's usually not a big deal if they aren't, apart from occasionally getting a tickle from one. Sometimes these eddy currents can be strong enough to throw a GFI, causing nuisance tripping that aquarists often complain about associated with their lighting systems.
Going into this, the problem with your ballast was either these currents or a hard ballast fault (a hot component touching the case internally, "electrifying" it). If it had been an hard fault, your breaker would have popped the moment you switched them on having grounded them. Since the problem simply went away, it was almost certainly eddy currents so you will not have any further issues.
toosalty
Member
Originally Posted by Pumper
http:///forum/post/2758143
Dude, you can't ground something properly to a sheet of plywood. You might want to hire someone who knows what they are doing before you kill your livestock or/and yourself. Otherwise, looks like some good products you purchased there... Good luck
I have everything grounded right. Its not just sitting on plywood. Take a closer look at the pic and you will see.
http:///forum/post/2758143
Dude, you can't ground something properly to a sheet of plywood. You might want to hire someone who knows what they are doing before you kill your livestock or/and yourself. Otherwise, looks like some good products you purchased there... Good luck
I have everything grounded right. Its not just sitting on plywood. Take a closer look at the pic and you will see.
toosalty
Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2758336
Looks like you are golden.
Electronic ballasts are notorious for introducing eddy currents on the ballast's case just like the lamps can do it in the reflectors as you found out. Electronic ballasts run the lamps at very high frequencies, usually about 45khz (as opposed to 60hz from a wall outlet). Inductive coupling (the cause of eddy currents) happens much more readily at higher frequencies. This is the reason why I maintain that even floating reflectors should be grounded, but as you've found out it's usually not a big deal if they aren't, apart from occasionally getting a tickle from one. Sometimes these eddy currents can be strong enough to throw a GFI, causing nuisance tripping that aquarists often complain about associated with their lighting systems.
Going into this, the problem with your ballast was either these currents or a hard ballast fault (a hot component touching the case internally, "electrifying" it). If it had been an hard fault, your breaker would have popped the moment you switched them on having grounded them. Since the problem simply went away, it was almost certainly eddy currents so you will not have any further issues.
Thanks for all your help and maybe one day I will ground the reflectors, but I have to think of a easy way to do it so I can remove them quickly for cleaning.
http:///forum/post/2758336
Looks like you are golden.
Electronic ballasts are notorious for introducing eddy currents on the ballast's case just like the lamps can do it in the reflectors as you found out. Electronic ballasts run the lamps at very high frequencies, usually about 45khz (as opposed to 60hz from a wall outlet). Inductive coupling (the cause of eddy currents) happens much more readily at higher frequencies. This is the reason why I maintain that even floating reflectors should be grounded, but as you've found out it's usually not a big deal if they aren't, apart from occasionally getting a tickle from one. Sometimes these eddy currents can be strong enough to throw a GFI, causing nuisance tripping that aquarists often complain about associated with their lighting systems.
Going into this, the problem with your ballast was either these currents or a hard ballast fault (a hot component touching the case internally, "electrifying" it). If it had been an hard fault, your breaker would have popped the moment you switched them on having grounded them. Since the problem simply went away, it was almost certainly eddy currents so you will not have any further issues.
Thanks for all your help and maybe one day I will ground the reflectors, but I have to think of a easy way to do it so I can remove them quickly for cleaning.
pumper
Member
Originally Posted by TooSalty
http:///forum/post/2758488
I have everything grounded right. Its not just sitting on plywood. Take a closer look at the pic and you will see.
I see it's right now. It was grounded directly to the wood in a previous picture. Good jorb.
http:///forum/post/2758488
I have everything grounded right. Its not just sitting on plywood. Take a closer look at the pic and you will see.
I see it's right now. It was grounded directly to the wood in a previous picture. Good jorb.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Originally Posted by SCSInet
http:///forum/post/2758336
Looks like you are golden.
Electronic ballasts are notorious for introducing eddy currents on the ballast's case just like the lamps can do it in the reflectors as you found out. Electronic ballasts run the lamps at very high frequencies, usually about 45khz (as opposed to 60hz from a wall outlet). Inductive coupling (the cause of eddy currents) happens much more readily at higher frequencies. This is the reason why I maintain that even floating reflectors should be grounded, but as you've found out it's usually not a big deal if they aren't, apart from occasionally getting a tickle from one. Sometimes these eddy currents can be strong enough to throw a GFI, causing nuisance tripping that aquarists often complain about associated with their lighting systems.
Going into this, the problem with your ballast was either these currents or a hard ballast fault (a hot component touching the case internally, "electrifying" it). If it had been an hard fault, your breaker would have popped the moment you switched them on having grounded them. Since the problem simply went away, it was almost certainly eddy currents so you will not have any further issues.
This is not exactly true. As a matter of fact you can have a fault and get a shock and not trip the breaker. The nuetral or any high impedance part of the circuit can and will cause you to get a shock and not trip the breaker. This can and possibly could be the ballast leads feeding the lamps. Additioanlly, I'm not sure I am familiar with the term Inductive Coupling. Please educate me on that term. IMO, eddy current are caused by EMF. Which is definetly abundant around your lighting.
That said, you defintly can have an Eddy current strong enough to feel.
http:///forum/post/2758336
Looks like you are golden.
Electronic ballasts are notorious for introducing eddy currents on the ballast's case just like the lamps can do it in the reflectors as you found out. Electronic ballasts run the lamps at very high frequencies, usually about 45khz (as opposed to 60hz from a wall outlet). Inductive coupling (the cause of eddy currents) happens much more readily at higher frequencies. This is the reason why I maintain that even floating reflectors should be grounded, but as you've found out it's usually not a big deal if they aren't, apart from occasionally getting a tickle from one. Sometimes these eddy currents can be strong enough to throw a GFI, causing nuisance tripping that aquarists often complain about associated with their lighting systems.
Going into this, the problem with your ballast was either these currents or a hard ballast fault (a hot component touching the case internally, "electrifying" it). If it had been an hard fault, your breaker would have popped the moment you switched them on having grounded them. Since the problem simply went away, it was almost certainly eddy currents so you will not have any further issues.
This is not exactly true. As a matter of fact you can have a fault and get a shock and not trip the breaker. The nuetral or any high impedance part of the circuit can and will cause you to get a shock and not trip the breaker. This can and possibly could be the ballast leads feeding the lamps. Additioanlly, I'm not sure I am familiar with the term Inductive Coupling. Please educate me on that term. IMO, eddy current are caused by EMF. Which is definetly abundant around your lighting.
That said, you defintly can have an Eddy current strong enough to feel.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
http:///forum/post/2759038
Additioanlly, I'm not sure I am familiar with the term Inductive Coupling. Please educate me on that term.
I may not have used an industry standard term...
Of course, yes, eddy currents are caused by EMF... the electro magnetic frequency that is radiated from any metalic object carrying current. Usually it's pretty weak, such as around a device's power cord...
...but when you either increase the field... by deliberately concentrating the magnetic field as transformers, magnetic ballasts, etc do or by increasing the frequency (by increasing the frequency you dramatically improve the efficiency of electrical induction), and bring a metallic object nearby, such as a light reflector or even the very case of the device in question, you induce a current in that metalic object, through induction [inductive coupling as I call it...]. I'm sure you know this, I just used a screwy term.
Basically, the light reflector or case of a ballast in close enough vicinity to a concentrated and/or high frequency EMF field generated by a ballast's coil, an operating lamp, etc etc etc you've formed a very inefficient transformer, yet in the right conditions efficient enough to concentrate enough of a current to feel. The powered device... ballast, lamp, etc is the primary and the reflector or ungrounded metal case of the ballast is the secondary.
Bear in mind I'm not saying he doesn't for sure have a potentially faulty ballast, and you make a good point by indicating that simply because the breaker doesn't trip doesn't mean there is no problem. In essence you are saying that there may be a current flowing to the ground that is potentially dangerous, yet insufficient to throw a breaker. Fair enough.
Unfortuantely, they only way to know for sure is to use a hi-pot tester on the ballast which nearly nobody has access to. So I will suggest an ordinary-folks alternative.
Connect the entire lighting rig to a properly grounded GFI. A GFI will trip on a threshold of something like 40ma of leakage. My feeling is that if a GFI holds, he's probably dealing with eddy currents. If it trips, he should replace the ballast.
http:///forum/post/2759038
Additioanlly, I'm not sure I am familiar with the term Inductive Coupling. Please educate me on that term.
I may not have used an industry standard term...
Of course, yes, eddy currents are caused by EMF... the electro magnetic frequency that is radiated from any metalic object carrying current. Usually it's pretty weak, such as around a device's power cord...
...but when you either increase the field... by deliberately concentrating the magnetic field as transformers, magnetic ballasts, etc do or by increasing the frequency (by increasing the frequency you dramatically improve the efficiency of electrical induction), and bring a metallic object nearby, such as a light reflector or even the very case of the device in question, you induce a current in that metalic object, through induction [inductive coupling as I call it...]. I'm sure you know this, I just used a screwy term.
Basically, the light reflector or case of a ballast in close enough vicinity to a concentrated and/or high frequency EMF field generated by a ballast's coil, an operating lamp, etc etc etc you've formed a very inefficient transformer, yet in the right conditions efficient enough to concentrate enough of a current to feel. The powered device... ballast, lamp, etc is the primary and the reflector or ungrounded metal case of the ballast is the secondary.
Bear in mind I'm not saying he doesn't for sure have a potentially faulty ballast, and you make a good point by indicating that simply because the breaker doesn't trip doesn't mean there is no problem. In essence you are saying that there may be a current flowing to the ground that is potentially dangerous, yet insufficient to throw a breaker. Fair enough.
Unfortuantely, they only way to know for sure is to use a hi-pot tester on the ballast which nearly nobody has access to. So I will suggest an ordinary-folks alternative.
Connect the entire lighting rig to a properly grounded GFI. A GFI will trip on a threshold of something like 40ma of leakage. My feeling is that if a GFI holds, he's probably dealing with eddy currents. If it trips, he should replace the ballast.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by TooSalty
http:///forum/post/2759627
Should I still be worried?
Not necessarily. Do your test and we'll see.
http:///forum/post/2759627
Should I still be worried?
Not necessarily. Do your test and we'll see.