should I look for cycle ?

[keith gray]

I bought a nanocube this weekend. I used water from a display tank my LFS was taking down for remodeling. The water test OK for trates, trites, ammonia, but PH is still low !
Will this tank cycle ? Should I do something to raise PH? Water change ?
I am anxious to get something in DT - fish, corals
help.......

 

[spanko]

More info. Any rocks, sand in the tank. The water from the display tank will have minimal help in getting a cycle going. A new tank needs to cycle. Ph should balance out as the tank cycles. Patience not anxious.

 

[keith gray]

I have sand from the same display tank from LFS. I bought 7-8 lbs of live rock. I figured since the water from DT had already cycled that I would not need to wait on cycle. Am I wrong ? I have noticed some brown alage growing on back of tank.

 

[spanko]

Yes you are wrong. The sand has been mixed up in moving it from the store to your home and has most likely released some of the detritus contained in there. This will cause an ammonia spike of some sort. The live rock may also have some die-off in it that will cause some type of ammonia spike. Best to treat this as a new setup and test accordingly to monitor progress. May not be a large cycle but then again best to be safe.
Cycled water is a misnomer. The bacteria do not reside in the water column to any real degree. The bacteria live on hard surfaces in our tanks.

 

[keith gray]

Thanks Spanko. It has been years since I went through the beginning stages of cycling. I will be patient

 

[keith gray]

Should I do anything to assist the cycle, maybe leave a raw shrimp in bottom or something ?!!
The only things in the tank other than lr and sand is about 3 little crabs and snails that were evidentally hitchhikers.

 

[florida joe]

Keith as you point out, it has been years since you had a tank that needed bio filtration initially established. IMO you would be better served if you refreshed your knowledge on bio filtration from beginning to reacquiring, rather then getting a stock answer like "do or don't" throw a shrimp in

 

[keith gray]

This is a used tank and since it has been up and running I am confues as to whether or not this has been established. One of the prior posters said that this process took place on hard tank surfaces notr necessarily watyer column - so now I am more confused

 

[florida joe]

Keith I am dealing with a acute neck problem and as such I am under the influence of Pharmaceutical grade pain medication. Please do not take anything I say personally. I do not understand what your interpretation of eatablished means, please explain. You state that you are confused by the statement that nitrification is accomplished on hard surfaces and not in the water column . That confusion leads me to believe you do not have a fundamental knowledge of how we cycle nutrients in our tank. IMO before you go any further you get a good book on the hobby and start once again at the beginning

 

[keith gray]

My understanding is that when you first set up a tank that the water must "cycle" first before adding livestock and such. Someone told me that if you have water from an established tank that is already "cycled" that this would not be necessary. I bought a used tank and equipment and put in sand and water from a display tank they were taking down at my LFS.
Then someone on here told me that the water I used still may need to cycle and the nutrients that are created through cycling are actually established on walls of tank, etc.
I am just trying to figure out if this tank will go through a cycle or if all parameters are in check how long do I wait to assume that no cycle will take place.
Thanks for your input

 

[keith gray]

Here is an excerpt from an article on the internet. This 14 gla biocube is registering nitrates at about 60-70. I am out of ammonia test kit and will go get one. But if nitrates are already registering this makes me think the cycle is already starting according to the info below.
Am I looking at this right ?
After two weeks, the ammonia should peak and nitrites should be starting to rise. In simple terms, the ammonia converts to nitrite, and then the nitrite to nitrate. Four weeks after you start the cycle, the nitrite should be peaking, and starting to fall. You should now start picking up your nitrate readings.

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by Keith Gray
http:///forum/post/3213430
My understanding is that when you first set up a tank that the water (not water, tank)must "cycle" first before adding livestock and such. Someone told me that if you have water from an established tank that is already "cycled" that this would not be necessary.(water does not cycle, it does not contain any real population of the necessary nitrifying or denitrifying bacteria that you are trying to establish during an initial cycle I bought a used tank and equipment and put in sand and water from a display tank they were taking down at my LFS.
Then someone on here told me that the water I used still may need to cycle(water does not cycle) and the nutrients (not nutrients, bacteria)that are created through cycling are actually established on walls of tank, etc.
I am just trying to figure out if this tank will go through a cycle or if all parameters are in check how long do I wait to assume that no cycle will take place.
Thanks for your input
I would keep testing this tank for a few weeks for ammonia and nitrites. If you see them spike up and then come back down that will be a "cycling" process taking place. If you see nothing after a few weeks then check for nitrates, do a water change and then start to add some clean up crew members.

 

[keith gray]

Thanks Spanko. I know patience is the key. There are about 3 tiny crabs and one snail that were hitchhikers from the sand or lr not sure which. Hopefully they will live thru any cycle.
Thanks again for info.
One other question - how does PH generally react with the cycle. I know the PH on this tank is still below 8, line 7.8 or so

 

[florida joe]

Keith let me first say, I am happy to see you did not get upset at my post and leave. I still recommend a good book but I will attempt to explain something's. Nitrogen enters out tanks manly from uneaten food fish waste or from something decaying. This material is converted into ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. This conversion is known as the nitrogen cycle. Nitrification (the conversion of ammonia to nitrates) is accomplished by Bacteria metabolizing these things. The nitrifing bacteria colonize on any surface in our aquarium and not suspended in our water column. You refer to the water being cycled. That is not what is happening, the organics are what is being cycled. Research online or at the library if you do not have a good book as of yet on the fundamentals of nitrogen cycling in the marine aquarium. I am sure after you do you will come to understand the process and answer most if not all of your questions

 

[spanko]

I would let the Ph be. With the way the tank filters water through the back chambers and having some surface agitation in the display area from the return pump the Ph will stabilze over time. During the cycle is not the time to try and "fix" water chemistry. Just let er rip!

 

[keith gray]

Thanks I will test away over the next couple of weeks and see what I get. I may get a piece of filter from the sump in 65gal that has been up and running for about 5-6 years and put it in the back of the biocube.
I read somewhere that if you do that it can help build good bacteria during the cycle.

 

[florida joe]

I read somewhere that if you do that it can help build good bacteria during the cycle.
Do you think it will and if so why

 

[louti]

Fish produce ammonia as a result of utilizing protein in their diet. Uneaten food and other organic matter breaks down and also produces ammonia. Bacteria forms to consume this ammonia. As stated, it forms on hard surfaces, not in the water column. This bacteria produces nitrite as a bi-product of ammonia consumption. A different bacteria breaks down the nitrite into nitrate. Again, this bacteria is on hard, porous surface (i.e. rock, sand, bio balls, filter pads, etc.) A tank is said to be "cycled" when enough bacteria has grown to keep up with the ammonia and nitrite being produced in the system. Therefore, you will not detect ammonia and nitrite in your system. Adding water from an established system does not help. Adding, rock, sand, etc. will help. As spanko said, you need to test the water and be patient. Most likely, you killed alot of the bacteria that was in the tank when you moved it and are basically starting over. Hope that cleared it up a little.

 

[keith gray]

Thanks - that makes good sense to me now. The nitrates are about 80 or so as of last night. Ammonia still zero.
Should I do water changes like I normally would. Or do you think the nitrates will drop on there on in due time ?

 

[keith gray]

Should I do water changes like I normally would. Or do you think the nitrates will drop on there on in due time ?