should they get their money back?
- Thread starter wfd1008
- Start date
lexluethar
Active Member
IMO no. With that mentality then the SEC should give them all of their money back for allowing this tool to work them over.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2986186
IMO no. With that mentality then the SEC should give them all of their money back for allowing this tool to work them over.
heck yeah, the govt collected money in taxes that the tax payer did not actually earn... They overpaid. So the government has no claim to that money.
http:///forum/post/2986186
IMO no. With that mentality then the SEC should give them all of their money back for allowing this tool to work them over.
heck yeah, the govt collected money in taxes that the tax payer did not actually earn... They overpaid. So the government has no claim to that money.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I agree they should get the money back in taxes they paid on money they never saw.
reefraff
Active Member
They should be limited to the same rules we real world investors are required to follow. I believe we can only write off 3000.00 in capital losses per year. Not my fault these people put all their eggs in one basket and got burned. You know your principle isn't guaranteed up front when you invest in securities. I paid plenty of taxes on an account that is now worth less than my initial investment, I don't get my money back.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2986186
IMO no. With that mentality then the SEC should give them all of their money back for allowing this tool to work them over.
Not all of the money, just the tax they paid on money that they did not have. Tragic loss, but all they can really ask the IRS for is a refund of the amount overpaid to the IRS.
I see some CPAs submitting amended tax returns.
http:///forum/post/2986186
IMO no. With that mentality then the SEC should give them all of their money back for allowing this tool to work them over.
Not all of the money, just the tax they paid on money that they did not have. Tragic loss, but all they can really ask the IRS for is a refund of the amount overpaid to the IRS.
I see some CPAs submitting amended tax returns.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2986245
They should be limited to the same rules we real world investors are required to follow. I believe we can only write off 3000.00 in capital losses per year. Not my fault these people put all their eggs in one basket and got burned. You know your principle isn't guaranteed up front when you invest in securities. I paid plenty of taxes on an account that is now worth less than my initial investment, I don't get my money back.
This isn't a capital loss, it is an incorrectly submitted tax return. If we screw up and owe the government money they'll come after us years after the fact. Why shouldn't it be the other way around....
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2986246
Not all of the money, just the tax they paid on money that they did not have. Tragic loss, but all they can really ask the IRS for is a refund of the amount overpaid to the IRS.
I see some CPAs submitting amended tax returns.
Exactly.
http:///forum/post/2986245
They should be limited to the same rules we real world investors are required to follow. I believe we can only write off 3000.00 in capital losses per year. Not my fault these people put all their eggs in one basket and got burned. You know your principle isn't guaranteed up front when you invest in securities. I paid plenty of taxes on an account that is now worth less than my initial investment, I don't get my money back.
This isn't a capital loss, it is an incorrectly submitted tax return. If we screw up and owe the government money they'll come after us years after the fact. Why shouldn't it be the other way around....
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2986246
Not all of the money, just the tax they paid on money that they did not have. Tragic loss, but all they can really ask the IRS for is a refund of the amount overpaid to the IRS.
I see some CPAs submitting amended tax returns.
Exactly.
jellyman1213
Member
They should not. Their accounts are covered up to a certain limit. If they put all their eggs in one basket then it is their fault, noone else's.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by jellyman1213
http:///forum/post/2986435
They should not. Their accounts are covered up to a certain limit. If they put all their eggs in one basket then it is their fault, noone else's.
We are not talking about the accounts. We are only talking about taxes paid to the government on money that was obviously not earned.
http:///forum/post/2986435
They should not. Their accounts are covered up to a certain limit. If they put all their eggs in one basket then it is their fault, noone else's.
We are not talking about the accounts. We are only talking about taxes paid to the government on money that was obviously not earned.
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2986335
This isn't a capital loss, it is an incorrectly submitted tax return. If we screw up and owe the government money they'll come after us years after the fact. Why shouldn't it be the other way around....
Exactly.
The people who were investing could have sold out and gotten paid at any time up until the collapse. Many did and are now facing possible "claw back" because they received their profits.
http:///forum/post/2986335
This isn't a capital loss, it is an incorrectly submitted tax return. If we screw up and owe the government money they'll come after us years after the fact. Why shouldn't it be the other way around....
Exactly.
The people who were investing could have sold out and gotten paid at any time up until the collapse. Many did and are now facing possible "claw back" because they received their profits.
sickboy
Active Member
And b/c they could have realized a gain at any time they should have to pay taxes on it, fraudulent account or not. If people got their taxes back every time they made a bad investment, there would be even less risk in the market and we'd have even worse bubbles.
Don't get conned and you won't loose all your money....same way I feel about all those who lost all their investments "legally", they weren't realizing actual business gains last year and Wall Street played everyone a fool....
Don't get conned and you won't loose all your money....same way I feel about all those who lost all their investments "legally", they weren't realizing actual business gains last year and Wall Street played everyone a fool....
reefraff
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2986566
And b/c they could have realized a gain at any time they should have to pay taxes on it, fraudulent account or not. If people got their taxes back every time they made a bad investment, there would be even less risk in the market and we'd have even worse bubbles.
Don't get conned and you won't loose all your money....same way I feel about all those who lost all their investments "legally", they weren't realizing actual business gains last year and Wall Street played everyone a fool....
Damn, there we go agreeing again.
http:///forum/post/2986566
And b/c they could have realized a gain at any time they should have to pay taxes on it, fraudulent account or not. If people got their taxes back every time they made a bad investment, there would be even less risk in the market and we'd have even worse bubbles.
Don't get conned and you won't loose all your money....same way I feel about all those who lost all their investments "legally", they weren't realizing actual business gains last year and Wall Street played everyone a fool....
Damn, there we go agreeing again.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2986566
And b/c they could have realized a gain at any time they should have to pay taxes on it,
"Could have" are the key words here. I could have robbed the bank yesterday, but did not. Should I be prosecuted for bank robbery?
If dividend checks were issued, then tax away.
http:///forum/post/2986566
And b/c they could have realized a gain at any time they should have to pay taxes on it,
"Could have" are the key words here. I could have robbed the bank yesterday, but did not. Should I be prosecuted for bank robbery?
If dividend checks were issued, then tax away.
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2986708
"Could have" are the key words here. I could have robbed the bank yesterday, but did not. Should I be prosecuted for bank robbery?
If dividend checks were issued, then tax away.
By that logic, there is no such thing as equity.
http:///forum/post/2986708
"Could have" are the key words here. I could have robbed the bank yesterday, but did not. Should I be prosecuted for bank robbery?
If dividend checks were issued, then tax away.
By that logic, there is no such thing as equity.
socal57che
Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2986723
By that logic, there is no such thing as equity.
Like the equity I had when I bought a house 18 months ago??????
Intanible.
http:///forum/post/2986723
By that logic, there is no such thing as equity.
Like the equity I had when I bought a house 18 months ago??????
Intanible.
sickboy
Active Member
Originally Posted by wfd1008
http:///forum/post/2986169
so, from my understanding, the folks that got ripped off by Madoff had to pay taxes on the money they "thought" they made. do you think that those people should get their money back from the IRS atleast?
Ok, wait, hold up....
Why did they get taxed? If they cashed out then they "did" make money....Otherwise, if they used accounting methods that used "unrealized gains" then that is there own fault.
http:///forum/post/2986169
so, from my understanding, the folks that got ripped off by Madoff had to pay taxes on the money they "thought" they made. do you think that those people should get their money back from the IRS atleast?
Ok, wait, hold up....
Why did they get taxed? If they cashed out then they "did" make money....Otherwise, if they used accounting methods that used "unrealized gains" then that is there own fault.
stdreb27
Active Member
You guys are missing the boat on this one.
There was no added value to their money. They paid money into the pot, then the pot handed their money back to the investor in increments. They turned around and claimed a profit. But it really wasn't a profit since they were basically being handed their money back to them...
It would be like me holding your money then giving back to you in intervals and you claiming it as income.
A ponzi sceme doesn't work if all of the investors actually gets back more than they pay in.
There was no added value to their money. They paid money into the pot, then the pot handed their money back to the investor in increments. They turned around and claimed a profit. But it really wasn't a profit since they were basically being handed their money back to them...
It would be like me holding your money then giving back to you in intervals and you claiming it as income.
A ponzi sceme doesn't work if all of the investors actually gets back more than they pay in.