sick fish with Vibrio, what treatments work?

[kazarko]

I've got a tank with sick fish from vibrio, possibly from raw uncooked shell fish I fed to my puffer fish. I am currently using a fungus med for secondary infections and furan-2 for the bacterial infection. Any additional suggestions? I tried to upload some pics, but the uploads failed even though I had jpeg pictures of <500x500 pixels and less than 100k in size
The fish had open red sores and my puffer fish turned a pale color of dead flesh on one side of his body that spread very quickly and he already passed away.
The puffer fish and other fishes have been in the tank living happily for over a year, so the tank was stable until this outbreak.

 

[renogaw]

post the pic to photobucket, then link the IMG tagline here.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Kazarko
http:///forum/post/2457767
I've got a tank with sick fish from vibrio, possibly from raw uncooked shell fish I fed to my puffer fish. I am currently using a fungus med for secondary infections and furan-2 for the bacterial infection. Any additional suggestions? I tried to upload some pics, but the uploads failed even though I had jpeg pictures of <500x500 pixels and less than 100k in size
The fish had open red sores and my puffer fish turned a pale color of dead flesh on one side of his body that spread very quickly and he already passed away.
Are you certain that it is vibrio? The treatment for that is medication that contains Terramycin or Romet, added to the foods. I am not familiar with Furan-2, but check the ingredients. Have you checked your water levels? Having proper water levels is important for the fish to recover. Post some pictures as soon as you can so that we can help identify what they have.

 

[kazarko]

added pictures to first post.
btw, furan-2 has Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone, so it's an antibiotic.
Any water testing I do right now will probably be useless because the tank is heavily medicated and there will be a lot of good bacteria killed by the medication as well. I'm expecting to need a lot of water changes due to killing of bacteria and therefore ammonia and nitrites present. This is a fast killing disease because one of my fish died between 24-48 hours of symptoms, even if it's not vibrio. In addition I've removed all foam on filters and completely stopped my protein skimmer because I don't want anything to remove any medicine from the tank and get in the way of the medication from doing tis job.

 

[gohabsgo]

hi! a month ago i had the exact same issue with my valentini puffer in 30 hours he was dead,the days after the mandarin was dead from same thing!! I still dont know what it was ?So what is vibrio?

 

[kazarko]

vibrio for me probably came into the tank through live feed I used. I placed live mussel in the tank to feed my puffer that was freshly killed from the store and not frozen. That turned out to be a bad idea, because my puffer showed symptoms fairly soon and is now dead. It is a contagious bateria that kills fast with a high mortality rate. I am not sure exactly how it spreads in water, but it definitely spreads through tissue and consumption of infected foods. The shell fish was probably containminated because of the timing and shell fish is a common known carrier of the disease =/
Yet another reason why people should avoid eating raw shell fish... there are strains which affect humans causing death as well.
I am still uncertain how the rest of my fish will do under these conditions.

 

[sepulatian]

Did your puffer inflate? Do you have pictures of your other fish? Vibrio is uncommon in aquarium fish. It is a bacterial infection that could have come in on the shellfish, but if the fish had a descent immune system then it would not infect the fish at all. It infects from the intestines and the infection spreads from there. It is infectious to humans that eat the contaminated fish, but the only fish that really seem to be infected by the bacteria are those in overcrowded distribution tanks. I am talking about hundreds of fish in small tanks. I highly doubt that this is what your fish has. What was the contaminated food source? On the pics of the puffer it looks like he inflated and the bottom of his stomach was torn. This has happened with other puffers and they rarely make it. Post pics of symptoms on your other fish.

 

[kazarko]

first picture is the side of a grouper in my tank, it is another fish in the tank. If you thought that was the puffer then that is wrong.
Only the second picture is of the puffer. I am uncertain about the immune system of this fish, the guy had a scar on one eye once that did not go away for months. He could also have had internal parasites to begin with because I did not QT him. Looking at teh FAQs it seems like my sailfin tang in my tank also has HLLE, which seems odd because I feed my fish a variety of frozen(brine, krill and mysis shrimp) and flake(formaula 2) and pellet foods(New life spectrum) with the frozen foods soaked in vitamins. The cause could be poor water conditions persistent in the tank, but that is again speculation and at this point I can't get decent readings due to so many changes in the tank(medication & removal of dead fish). But now that I have less fish in the tank it's easier to make sure I feed them each what they need.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Kazarko
http:///forum/post/2459262
first picture is the side of a grouper in my tank, it is another fish in the tank. If you thought that was the puffer then that is wrong.
Only the second picture is of the puffer. I am uncertain about the immune system of this fish, the guy had a scar on one eye once that did not go away for months. He could also have had internal parasites to begin with because I did not QT him. Looking at teh FAQs it seems like my sailfin tang in my tank also has HLLE, which seems odd because I feed my fish a variety of frozen(brine, krill and mysis shrimp) and flake(formaula 2) and pellet foods(New life spectrum) with the frozen foods soaked in vitamins. The cause could be poor water conditions persistent in the tank, but that is again speculation and at this point I can't get decent readings due to so many changes in the tank(medication & removal of dead fish). But now that I have less fish in the tank it's easier to make sure I feed them each what they need.
I did think that the first pic was of your puffer, and I was wrong. Your puffer died with just the puffed eye on him? It looks like a combination of bad diet along with bacterial infections and who knows what else if your water quality is not up to par. How long has this tank been running? Internal parasites do not come from not quarantineing a fish and they are very rare. You have been adding medicine into the display? Please post your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, nitrate, ph, sg, and temp.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Kazarko
http:///forum/post/2458910
vibrio for me probably came into the tank through live feed I used. I placed live mussel in the tank to feed my puffer that was freshly killed from the store and not frozen. That turned out to be a bad idea, because my puffer showed symptoms fairly soon and is now dead. It is a contagious bateria that kills fast with a high mortality rate. I am not sure exactly how it spreads in water, but it definitely spreads through tissue and consumption of infected foods. The shell fish was probably containminated because of the timing and shell fish is a common known carrier of the disease =/
Yet another reason why people should avoid eating raw shell fish... there are strains which affect humans causing death as well.
I am still uncertain how the rest of my fish will do under these conditions.
Correct, but the symptoms are not one puffed eye. It infects the intestines of the fish.

 

[kazarko]

the entire side of the puffer was necrotic with purple dead flesh, that is NOT just one eye.
The tank has been up and running for more than a year. I did not quarantine the fish, and IPs are more common with puffers than fish like tangs. Some fish stores feed gold fish to puffers as feeders. I am not sure if the puffer had IP to begin with. He did not eat at all when he started showing symptoms. Whatever the disease was, it spread fast and I'm not sure it started on the eye. It is just one symptom. The open red sore led me to belive it is vibrio along with the fast moving disease progression and the symptoms showing up shortly after shellfish was consumed.
If you have other suggestions about what this could be then you are welcome to give some.
I haven't really seen much of a suggestion from anyone about other possibilities.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Kazarko
http:///forum/post/2459306
the entire side of the puffer was necrotic with purple dead flesh, that is NOT just one eye.
The tank has been up and running for more than a year. I did not quarantine the fish, and IPs are more common with puffers than fish like tangs. Some fish stores feed gold fish to puffers as feeders. I am not sure if the puffer had IP to begin with. He did not eat at all when he started showing symptoms. Whatever the disease was, it spread fast and I'm not sure it started on the eye. It is just one symptom. The open red sore led me to belive it is vibrio along with the fast moving disease progression and the symptoms showing up shortly after shellfish was consumed.
If you have other suggestions about what this could be then you are welcome to give some.
I haven't really seen much of a suggestion from anyone about other possibilities.
I gave you many other possibilities. Google Vibrio. This is not common in pet fish at all. The poor water quality and poor diet are very common factors in fish with bacterial infections, which is what I am seeing here. Not Vibrio, but a common bacterial infection combined with the stresses of a poor environment. If it were an internal parasite then an antibiotic like
btw, furan-2 has Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone, so it's an antibiotic.
would not treat it. It would need to be treated orally. In tank treatments are a last resort in the hopes that it will help. You also said that the contaminate was a live feeder clam. You said that he was not eating at all when he showed symptoms, then in this post said that the symptoms started after the clam was consumed.
I am not sure if the puffer had IP to begin with. He did not eat at all when he started showing symptoms. Whatever the disease was, it spread fast and I'm not sure it started on the eye. It is just one symptom. The open red sore led me to belive it is vibrio along with the fast moving disease progression and the symptoms showing up shortly after shellfish was consumed.
Vibrio is a bacterial infection of the intestines, not an internal parasite. If any of your other fish have red marks then you may want to put them into a qt and treat them with maracyn2 for SW fish.

 

[kazarko]

the fish would be in a QT if I had a QT. I don't have a QT right now.

 

[kazarko]

I would think not eating is a general sign of illness, not entirely indicative of any particular one. All my other fish that are still alive are eating.
Also, if it was internal parasites, what type would it be? I don't think they have the same symptoms and I would have to have several to cause cloudy bulging eye, dead tissue spreading across the fish, and rapidly spreading red sore.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Kazarko
http:///forum/post/2459418
I would think not eating is a general sign of illness, not entirely indicative of any particular one. All my other fish that are still alive are eating.
Also, if it was internal parasites, what type would it be? I don't think they have the same symptoms and I would have to have several to cause cloudy bulging eye, dead tissue spreading across the fish, and rapidly spreading red sore.
An internal parasite would not cause the popped eye. You would notice the fish get thin and the fecal matter would be white and stringy. There is not a whole lot that you can do for them in the display tank. I understand that you do not currently have a quarantine tank. Can you set one up?

 

[kazarko]

not currently, any new tanks would not be ready for fish for a good 5-6 weeks. This is an immediate problem. I will also be moving in hmm... 120 days or so? So new tank setup really should wait because I already have plans to relocate and get a better tank setup and I'm not sure I can travel with more tanks.
tested my water today
pH is a bit low 7.6-7.8 right now.
nitrates are 10-20ppm
nitrites are 0
I don't have an ammonia testing kit
I changed 25% tank water after the testing because my pH is low(I add calcium and trace mineral supplements to water) and I also am finishing up a round of the medication.

 

[kazarko]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2459894
An internal parasite would not cause the popped eye. You would notice the fish get thin and the fecal matter would be white and stringy. There is not a whole lot that you can do for them in the display tank. I understand that you do not currently have a quarantine tank. Can you set one up?
the current medication is not working, what would you suggest I use if the problem is caused by parasites?

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Kazarko
http:///forum/post/2462213
the current medication is not working, what would you suggest I use if the problem is caused by parasites?
I strongly do not think that it is parasites. I think it is a bacterial infection that progressed. You have killed off your biological bacteria with the previous meds right? The new med cannot do much more than that. Do a water change and run carbon for 48hrs to get rid of the old meds. Then add maracyn 2 for saltwater fish. What kind of water flow do you have? You need plenty of flow with any medication.

 

[kazarko]

only my Eheim pump is running right now, that's only 172gph due to my protein skimmer not on (dissolved organics from meds made it foam too fast in reaction so it was overflowing alot).
I do use a seperate air pump, and will be turning the protein skimmer on tomm after I buy carbon for the tank. No, I don't own or use carbon currently.
my protein skimmer is about 260gph for the pump.
In addition, the fish may be breaking out in several spots on its body with something under the skin. I notice some odd discolorations/swelling?(see picture) It seems to be coming out under the skin and the skin has a few lumps under it.
I am uncertain what these lumps may be.
In one spot the skin is peeling away and large areas of the flesh underneath is exposed. I am perplexed by why the flesh underneath is not eaten away completely but the skin peels off so much. It's like the fish is shedding, only it's not and something is eating away at it =/
The main sore/outbreak area is huge now, maybe 1-2 inches in diameter on the fish.

 

[kazarko]

Started the maracyn2 treatment today. I did a 30% water change before the treatment and started up the protein skimmer to use as a pump only to get better water flow and get some more dissolved oxygen in the water(noticed fish were breathing faster).