Sick or Injured? What do I do!?!

[msh441]

Greetings. I'm fairly new to the reef aquarium experience and to this forum. I've recently run into somthing that has me concerned.
I recently inherieted a beautiful 50 gallon tank with live rock, a number of recordia mushrooms, some coarl polyps, snails, a number of bristol worms and a single percula clown fish.

The tank was moved to my residence two weeks ago. Since that time I have added a new bio-wheel filter, new lights and a small pump to move a little water at 1 minute intervals (to eliminate a dead spot on the right side). The additions have quickley cleared up the green/cloudy water produced by the move and (I think) the tank looks great.
So here's my problem: In the last day, my clown has shown up with some spots on his right side. ONLY on the right side. Fins and gills look OK and his behavior is normal and he (she) is eating just fine. I've looked at pics if ich... and velvet... and a number of other diseses... but I didn't think it quite looked like those. I've done my best to take a pic, but I'm new to aquarium photography (and my clown doesn't pose very well).

You can see three spots on (and one above) the black stripe betwen the #1 and #2 white bands... two more just behind the #2 white stripe... and one more just in front of the #3 stripe at the base of the tail. Again, they are limited to the right side. Breathing, eating and general behavior seems normal. He "sleeps" in the mushrooms at night and likes to explore the rockey holes throughout the tank. Could (s)he have bumped into somthing hard or scraped off some of the natural coating that fish have on them? I'm grasping here...
A couple other points of concern (possible clues... then again, maybe unrelated): I have two turbo snails that seem to be going down hill: Their feet are browning, they seem lethargic and they aren't searching for food... just going dormant. I don't know if this is normal or not. They are 2-3 years old (at least) and I have a bunch of Trochus snails and one Nassarius snail that seem fine.
Secondly, my bristle worms, which were hugely plorific after the move (they were EVERYWHERE), are now rarely seen during the day. If so, only small ones moving slow.
I take these as signs... but then again, I would assume I would see the coral polyps and mushrooms going first if the whole tank was crashing.
I checked levels and came up with the following:
Marine ph - 8.04
Alkalinity - between 3 and 3.5
Nitrite - between .08 and .1
Nitrate - betwen .18 and .20
Free Amonia - between .001 and .004
Total Amonia - between .002 and .004
Phosphate - 0.5
Silicate - Very Low (<1), between .3 and .5
Salinity is at 1.022
Temp fluctuates between 79 and 81 degrees (after the lights have been on all day).
Please help!!! I don't know what to do other than watch and wait to see if anything changes. I really like this fish (didn't know I could get so attached) and I don't want to kill him after only 3 weeks.

 

[mazdaman]

i would do some water changes cause u should have o nitite and o amonia,also i think what you r seeing is clown fish disease .as for treating eat i have no clue.

 

[swlover]

Because of the move you are probably going thru a mini cycle, and the fish is stressed. The fish looks stressed definately, he may bounce back. How was he transported during the move? I agree with the above poster, do some water changes. Cut back on feeding too until you get your ammonia & nitrite levels down. Snails we need a pic. any other clean up crew..list them and what you have noticed, your shrooms look great, but have you noticed any excess slime coming from them?

 

[msh441]

Originally Posted by swlover
The fish looks stressed definately, he may bounce back. How was he transported during the move? Any other clean up crew..list them and what you have noticed, your shrooms look great, but have you noticed any excess slime coming from them?
How can you tell (s)he looks stressed (what should I look for? After the move he spent the fist day or two in the upper left/rear corner of the tank. I was happy when I thought I observed some behaviour I recognized prior to the relocation (bonding with his mushroon friends, sleeping in them at night, poking around during the day and coming out to greet me/beg for food).
As far as Nitrate/Nitrite and Amonia... they were about as close to zero as I could read on the scale. The only reason I gave them any value was to allow some room for some subjective error on the slider I was using.
Other clean-up crew: 2 or 3 other turbo snails, 4 or 5 Trochus snails, 1 Nassarius Sanil and (at least a few days ago) a bunch of bristle worms. Except for the mysterious dissappearance of the worms, the other snails appear fine. I was planning on getting a half dozen more Nassarious Snails, some hermit crabs and a cleaner shrimp next week (once the tank had settled for a month or so)... but now I'm scared to add or change anything.
As far as the mushrooms... there was some excess slime the first couple days when the water cleared up... especially after adding the new light last week (they looked engorged and really filled out within the first few hours under the new light). It's tapered off quite a bit, though. Hardly any the last few days.
I thought this morning that some of the polyps were turning white near the valve-mouth. I compared it to pics from earlier, though and it dosn't appear that it's any different from before (so I might be looking for signs of doom and gloom, now).
Hmmm...

 

[beth]

Are those spots simply discoloration on the fish, or is there texture to those spots?
There is definitely a problem, as you can start to see slight erosion of the dorsal, a sign of poor nutrition. What are you feeding this fish? How long have you had this fish?
I moved your topic over to the Disease Forum. Hope you don't mind, and welcome to Saltwaterfish.com!

 

[msh441]

At this point (2nd day visible) they are just discolorations (but I'm still VERY concerned). Like the scales in that are have faded and become blotchey.
I've been going though all the pics of ich, velvet and clown fish disease and it hasn't eased my mind any, either.
I will have to get the specific food information when I get home. I can only say that it's a flake food provided by the previous owner (I've had the fish 2 1/2-3 weeks). I have been feeding a pinch every other day.
No problem moving the topic... wherever I can get on the road to recovory.

 

[beth]

Flakes just don't cut the mustard in the marine hobby. You mentioned some info about your filtration. You really need good water movement throughout the tank, with noticeable movement at surface. How is your water circulation? Do you have skimmer?
Please post your water readings.

 

[msh441]

Marine ph - 8.04
Alkalinity - between 3 and 3.5
Nitrite - between .08 and .1*
Nitrate - betwen .18 and .20*
Free Amonia - between .001 and .004*
Total Amonia - between .002 and .004*
Phosphate - 0.5
Silicate - Very Low (<1), between .3 and .5
Salinity is very stable at 1.022
Temp fluctuates between 79 and 81 degrees (after the lights have been on all day).
*These values were about as close to zero as I could read on the scale. The only reason I gave them ANY value was to allow some room for some subjective error on the slider I was using (basically poor color on the printed strip or poor eyesight-which I don't have) . They basically however, are at zero on the scale.
Right now the tank has a Marineland 450 Bio-Wheel filter (with the longer snout and mid depth adjustable intake) and a SeaClone protien skimmer.
The runoff from the filter and the skimmer move things around really well in about 3/4 of the tank. For that one 1/4... I have an additional pump on the right hand side giving a 1 minute burst of water every other minute (pretty good shot of everything in the tank up above). So things are moving around nicely.

 

[msh441]

OK, an update after coming home tonight (30 hourse after first noticing the spots).
Bristle worms are out in force. I think they just finished the massive cleanup (after the move there was a ton if detritus on the surface of the substrate, so a 24-7 schmorgasboard for them for the first couple weeks, I guess). Now that it's clean, I think the've dropped into their normal nocturnal pattern.
The two snails are still inactive, curled up completly in their shells with their little protective door shut tight. Don't know... they may be worm food in a couple days. We'll see. The rest of the snails still all seem OK.
The fish was sleeping soundly on it's mushroom rock, as usual. Breathing even, tucked in tight. He stirred a little when I turned on the bathroom light nearby to brush my teeth... but I didn't want to wake him completely. I'll check on the spots tomorrow when he wakes up.
Is it possible he got bumped on a rock or recieved some type of abrasion during (or shortly after) the move/setup and it's only now showing up as it heals (or worse, it's become infected)? I guess I can answer that best and say that it's possible he got bumped... but is this what it would look like? It's strange that it's only on one side... and it just seems like in every other way the fish is behaving more and more normal every day. Relaxing in the tank's new location vs. stressing more and more.

 

[mcsd22]

My opinion is with a better diet you should see some improvement. A combination of Formula 1 & 2, Mysis, flake, soaked in Zoa, Selcon and garlic extreme might help. Just my 2 cents.

 

[swlover]

Was he moved inside the tank? I may have missed your answer some where..Yea if he was moved inside the tnk and not bagged up he would get bumped around. Get some crabs for your clean up crew, they do a great job at getting in nooks and crannies. Well you asked me how I could tell if he was stressed, he looks pinched looking, like another poster said his dorsal fin is a little choppy. He should be brightly colored, fins full and eyes alert. In the pic he looks a little rough. I would'nt worry about the snails, if you think they are not getting any better discard them and get new ones. Thats good about the mushrooms, as long as they are not spewing slime. Zoos turning white? Hummm I don't know about that, maybe someone else will chime in about that and help you out. Do a water change though and it can't hurt and it will certainly help. Try suctioning off any debis on corals and rocks with a small airline tube. Hope this helps.

 

[msh441]

Aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!
Though the side seems to be doing a little bit better (it's at least not worse)... the pectoral fin and fin centered along it's belly are looking haggered. No discoloration like the pics I've seen of rot, but torn in a couple spots and the fish is in hiding in his rockey overhang unless I come into the room. Then he comes out to see whats up.
Right now I'm thinking injury/infection combined with poor nutrishion. I've started feeding 2x per day. Formula 1 flakes in the morning and Hikari spirulina brine shrip in the evening. Selcon is on order. I also have a small section of Seaweed Salad hanging in the rear of the tank for grazing (and to help take my snail census, as they are all heading that way).
Water measurements are still the same, but I will be doing a 10% water change tomorrow (water is mixing/airating tonight). I'm going to try and bring the salenity up to 1.025 over the next week or so.
I'm considering treating with a combination of Melafix and Pimafix as well. Any advise? I would like to avoid removing the fish and stressing it any further.
To answer a couple more questions: The fish was moved in a container INSIDE a larger container holding the original water and live rock. The container tipped on it's side underwater, but the fish did not appear to get out and about into the larger container. Plus the injury appears to have come on in the last few days (not immediately following the move). In addition to the now fraying fins, I'm afraid it's more than just a bump during the move.
The rest of the snails look fine. One of the sick ones died. When it was apparant it was worm food, I removed it. Watching the other one still. so I don't necessisarily now think this was related.
The mushrooms are really spewing slime constantly. Just some coming off every once in a while. They have become very colorful and look engorged when the light is on during the day.

 

[msh441]

Originally Posted by msh441
I'm considering treating with a combination of Melafix and Pimafix as well. Any advise? I would like to avoid removing the fish and stressing it any further.
After doing a little research here and elsewhere, I've decided against the Melafix/Pimafix addition at this point. Too many mixed experiences out there and enough horror stories to completely convince me NEVER to put it directly in my tank with everything else that's in there.
I think for now, I will be focusing on water quality and diet. I've got 5 gallons of water airating now. I'll do a switch in the morning. Otherwise, wait & watch.