Sick Sailfin Tang

[mhtwirler1]

Hi, my name is Ashley and I'm brand new to the group! We just got our tank set up on saturday, we moved it from the old owners house. This tang looked perfect last week, now he is looking pretty sick

. The people at the fish store were no help, barely looked at our pictures and said bacterical infection. He was in the same bucket as a squirrel fish for the move and the squirrel fish seems very aggressive.His eye is swollen and has a white film over it and his skin is coming off is some places. Here are some pictures

 

[flower]

Hi,
Welcome to the site, sorry for the circumstances that brought you here. I'm afraid I can't see your pictures. Do you know about how to care for a SW tank? Can you list your test readings and tell us what equipment you have? Tell us how long was the move, and exactly what did when you moved it.....
This is just a guess: Old undisturbed sand if it gets stirred up (such as being removed for a move), releases toxins, the sand should have been rinsed in the old saltwater to wash away and release those toxins. That may be where the fish got bacterial infections and being stressed from the move would mean their immunity was low.

 

[mhtwirler1]

Nitrates 40ppm, nitrites 0, total alkalinity 120-180, ph 8.4
Move took about 3 hours, the guy we got it from is saying it was attacked by his Angel fish but didn't tell me that until I sent him a picture and asked what happen to the Sailfin. We have a Euro reef RS-80, bio balls are clean, filter sock that is clean and a protein skimmer that is going crazy right now, and T5 lighting. Sailfin is eating frozen Daily diet cubes(defrosted with fresh garlic liquid) and seaweed on a clip. Sailfin seems very close with a foxface but both seem a little afraid of the squirrel fish. We did not rinse sand, guy at local fish store said as long as it didn't look coffee groundish it would be ok, now we are thinking that wasn't a good idea, should we vaccuum it with a gravel vac?? Thanks

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhtwirler1 http:///t/392967/sick-sailfin-tang#post_3492985
Nitrates 40ppm, nitrites 0, total alkalinity 120-180, ph 8.4
Move took about 3 hours, the guy we got it from is saying it was attacked by his Angel fish but didn't tell me that until I sent him a picture and asked what happen to the Sailfin. We have a Euro reef RS-80, bio balls are clean, filter sock that is clean and a protein skimmer that is going crazy right now, and T5 lighting. Sailfin is eating frozen Daily diet cubes(defrosted with fresh garlic liquid) and seaweed on a clip. Sailfin seems very close with a foxface but both seem a little afraid of the squirrel fish. We did not rinse sand, guy at local fish store said as long as it didn't look coffee groundish it would be ok, now we are thinking that wasn't a good idea, should we vaccuum it with a gravel vac?? Thanks
No, just let things settle don't mess with the sand anymore.
Nitrates don't bother fish so much and all SW fish fight for territory and since everything was busted down and all the rock redone...it's every fishy for himself right now. Beth is our fish doc....and you are in the right section to get help. A sailfin tang gets to be about 15 inches and the minimum tank size is 180g...what size tank do you have?

 

[mhtwirler1]

Our tank is 90gallon, and he is about 7 inches long We just got him and the other fish with the tank on Saturday, there is a 4inch squirrel, a 4inch fox face, a small chromis and 2 small damsels. We want to turn the tank into a reef tank as soon as we get levels good and buy the right equipment. What do you guys do with a fish like our sailfin, if he is too large for my tank, I should at least wait till he is healthy to give to someone else right? I did some research and maybe looks like HLLE/ LLD, he has a good size scratch on his one side that follows his LL and his LL is pretty eaten up Thanks

 

[beth]

Can you re-post the pictures so we can take a look?

 

[mhtwirler1]

 

[flower]

Oh wow...he does look terrible...Beth can help.

 

[beth]

Did the tang look this way when you removed him from the bucket after the move? Are those blotches missing skin, or just discoloration? Use a magnifying glass to get a close look at his body, then give us more details. A healthy fish does not suddenly come down with HLLE to this extent that fast. Is the squirrel still being aggressive? If so, I would see if the LFS will take him.
Also, while nitrates might not effect most fish, there is evidence that tangs have a lower tolerance for them. High nitrates is an symptom that your system is not efficiently exporting organic waste from the tank. Basically, more waste then your bio-filter can handle, so you see it accumulating in the form of nitrates.

 

[mhtwirler1]

Yes he looked this way when I removed him from the bucket, his left eye is also swollen(3 times the size as the other) with a white film over it. He did have skin flakeing off(white pieces) and now it is just open, can see red, And the rest is discoloration, and there is a big line that goes from the front of the fish to the back and follows his LL, It looks like a scratch(you can see red), he is eating good, seems a little lost in the tank(sticks to one side the tank and swims in circles). The tang and the foxface follow each other everywhere. We saw the fish a week before and he looked great, his big fin was a little eaten up but other then that color looked good. The guy said the angel fish attacked him this week, but I didn't even see a angel fish in any of his tanks.
The squirrel fish is still being aggressive and will chase the chromis and damsels when they come out of their caves. The LFS will take the squirrel fish, and I will ask about the Tang too. Is there anyway to try and make him healthier so they don't just kill him there. The tang is eating seaweed and these frozen cubes called Daily that I have been soaking in garlic. I also am putting melafix in the tank everyday(per the LFS).
I talked with a guy who says to introduce bacteria to try and lower the nitrates and to do another 30% water change today. Any other ways to lower the nitrates?
Thanks so much!

 

[beth]

You're best bet it to try and find new homes for the aggressive fish. If they are aggressive, then that usually only gets worse not better. It will be a problem as you try to introduce new fish to the tank. LFS likely will not take the tang due to his condition; and, as you have guessed, if they did take him, his outlook would be poor in his weaken state in a tank with other fish in the LFS.
My opinion is that the primary problem is the aggression, followed by stress resulting from the aggression as well as the tank change-over. Just for info at this point, when moving fish as you did, it is best they are keep singularly, not together until the transfer is made. Also, when you add new fish, ask the LFS to separate fish into their own transport bag, rather then putting them together. This fish was experiencing aggression in the tank already prior to the move, as you have noted the nipped fins.
Removing the aggression should go a long way to resolving the issue for this tang as well as other fish in the tank. Now, the fish seems to have also developed a bacterial infection in the eye; this too would be a result of the stress it has experienced. Hopefully, this will clear up if you remove the aggressive fish, and start improving the water quality of your system.
Are you new to marine aquaria?
Quote:
I talked with a guy who says to introduce bacteria to try and lower the nitrates
Nope. Doesn't know what he's talking about. Just wants to sell you stuff.
Try doing 3 gal water changes daily for now. I would not suggest doing a major change in the tank right now with a stressed sick fish. What is your procedure for mixing salt water? Water source?

 

[mhtwirler1]

Thanks, I will take the squirrel fish to the LFS today. We are new, 4 days in and our 1st tank! We were also told a clean up crew would help our nitrates and a cleaner shrimp could also help the tang remove some of the bacteria and clean his eye up?? But our nitrates are too high for any inverts right now and Our tank is probably going through a cycle right?

 

[mhtwirler1]

Our water source is RO from outside the grocery store, and husband mixes the salt in. He mixes the water the night before and then takes the old water out and pumps the new in. We did a 30gallon change on saturday when we moved the tank and then another 20 gallon on sunday since the levels were high and now he hasnt touched it besides taking the carbon sock off and putting a new regular one on. Our protein skimmer is also going a little crazy, kept filling with water but it seems to have calmed down a bit. There is no adjustment on the protein skimmer, so hubby put a bio ball in the valve to slow down the flow.

 

[beth]

Test your source water. Many times, it is the biggest source of nitrates. Test before you mix salt. You have a test kit, right?
What salt are you using? And, what is the procedure you use for mixing salt? Do you test salinity before you put the salt water in your tank??

 

[mhtwirler1]

We tested it before we added salt and it had 0 nitrates and yes we have a test kit- the tetra strips and we have coralife marine salt mix. My hubby is measuring out the water and then adding a little below how much salt it says and testing the salinty till it's right and he has a pump filtering in the trash can he is mixing the water/salt in and that's all the night before water changes.

 

[beth]

That sounds very good. Better then most people just starting in the hobby. I would suggest, circulate the salt for 2 days rather than just overnight. It is important to really get good dissolve of all the elements in the salt mix, and it is necessary to do this to get accurate readings for salinity. What are you using to measure salinity?
Do you actually have sand in the tank? Or is it crushed coral? How much live rock do you have? What filters are you using? Pumps in tank? Protein skimmer?

 

[mhtwirler1]

We have a hyrdometer by instant ocean to measure salinity. We have live sand, probably 50lbs(not even a inch deep), 80-100lbs of live figi rock and we have a clean sock filter(did have a carbon one but LFS guy said to replace it with this one) and a Euro reef RS-80 protein skimmer that seems like it's working better(but no valve beside the down spout to adjust it), clean bio balls and a new Rio 20HF pump(870 gallon per hour) and a 1250 ACP aqueon power head and 2 T-5 lights(3 foot long) and tank is 4 foot.
We did not clean sand when we moved tank, but it looked clean but now we have heard we should of cleaned. I also have some pictures of the Tang today that I will post, the holes in his skin are getting bigger.

 

[mhtwirler1]

 

[beth]

With the added pictures we can absolutely confirm aggression with no doubt. I would suggest taking the aggressive fish out immediately.
If you want to start a reef tank, ween your system off of bioballs and filter pads. Better to have natural filters, rather than man made filters. These types of filters contribute greatly to the nitrate problem. And reef tanks have low tolerance for poor export of organics (nitrates)
Also, the swing arm hydrometers tend to be inaccurate. Better to invest in a refractometer, which you will need to treat ich when you get ich. If that is not in the budget, then get a floating hydrometer.

I'm going to suggest not adding any more fish for the next several weeks.

 

[mhtwirler1]

Thanks very much, taking the squirrel fish to the LFS now. Anything I can do to get the Tang to heal, he is going to live right? Could he be bumping in to rocks to make his skin look worse too?
What kind of natural filters do you recommend? Also my protein skimmer in the top part only has dirty water and then the bubbles there is no sludge, will that come as the tank gets established?
Thanks again