Skimmer help please...

[jennln]

I'm working with my first saltwater tank right now. It's a fowlr - predator tank. I relied heavily on my lfs for all of my information when venturing into this project (a topic that I'm sure I'll touch on later although not too relevant I suppose at the particular moment). One purchase I hadn't made yet was a protein skimmer because I was, at first, told that it was unnecessary for a fish only tank. Unfortunately I've been having a bit of a battle with my nitrate levels - not high enough to be of great concern, and easily manageable with frequent pwc, but I'm trying to get to the root of the problem to kind of keep a better handle on things. I think the heart of my problem is with the left over food after feedings. These little guys are quite voracious when eating and there are ridiculous amounts of tiny little pieces dispursed all over the place that I cannot possibly retrieve. There are a few who will poke around and eat some remaining bits off the sand bed for me, and another who only likes to pick the pieces up and spit them elsewhere in the tank. Obviously a "clean up crew" is not an option for me, since in my tank, they would be more readily considered appetizers. My only arsenal thus far has been to blow off the rocks to kind of unsettle as much as I can prior to pwc's and then siphon up as much as I can find from that process and what I can see along the top layer of the sand bed. Apparently it's not enough. I've now been told that a protein skimmer would be extremely beneficial for my tank. Great. However, I have NO idea what to look for in a skimmer. I know that either an in sump or hang on would be fine....I'm really not that picky about which, although honestly I'm not sure how much more room I have in my sump so a hang on unit or one that can stand alone next to my sump under cabinet would probably be the best bet. Unfortunately since I relied too much on the advice of someone who was, from what I'm realizing now, very much uneducated in the department of saltwater tanks, I have already spent a ridiculous amount of money replacing about 60& of my original purchases (wrong thing.....wrong size....wrong...wrong...wrong). Therefore my funds are somewhat limited for the purchase of a skimmer - even though I'm fully aware that this is apparently one of those times when the old "you get what you pay for" truly comes into play. The options that I have been able to find in my price range are:
Coralife
AquaC Remora
AquaC Urchin
CPR Octopus Recirculating
Red Sea Berlin X2 Turbo Protein Skimmer
Red Sea Berlin X2 Venturi Protein Skimmer
Again, I have zero experience in this department and really don't know what deciding factors make one better than the other. Nor am I really familiar enough with the brands to know who is good and who to steer clear from. I would love some recommendations of which would be the best from that list for my situation - or if there's something not on the list that I should be looking at please do let me know. Any and all suggestions would be wonderful and greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[masterhobbyist]

I am a big fan of my super skimmer seams to work great. All of my friends use it and none of them have had any problems.

 

[sean48183]

First off what size tank , what kind of fish, and how do you feed? A skimmer is absolutely necessary for a fowlr type tank more so than even a reef with limited fish. A skimmers main function is to get out fish crap and rotting food before it turns to ammonia then to nitrates. Your skimmer is dependent on your load and size. For example I have a 150g but got a skimmer rated for a 300g. I have a heavy feeding schedule with alot of large eating/pooping machines.

 

[jennln]

Okay currently I have a 60g tank housing:
Clown Trigger
Picasso Trigger
Snowflake Eel
Rainbow Wrasse
VTail Grouper
Red General Star
Chocolate Chip Star
Fuzzy Dwarf Lion
Couple of Damsels
Now **PLEASE** don't yell at me lol...a quick explanation...first they are all still babies and doing okay "roomwise" in this tank with no signs of aggression towards one another. They were not originally in here, I have a 240 gallon that was their original home. Unfortunately an accident involving an aggressively digging/burying wrasse and rockwork that was placed temporarily without being mounted together while I was waiting for my husband to get the necessary equipment proved to be a fatal mistake for the tank. Huge crack (leaking) in the front glass - I'm in the process of trying to find out if I can get a replacement front glass piece or if I'm out of luck and need to get a whole new tank. Lesson learned the hard way, I know it was a stupid thing to do, and I'm just very thankful all of my fish are okay.
I feed every 2-3 days. Usually I throw in a muscle that the triggers, wrasse, grouper and eel will start in on - wrasse always rips off the first piece and runs, eel toussels with the shell and rips the muscle out, grabs his piece and goes - triggers and grouper chow down on the big piece left behind. I cut a silverside in half and stick one piece under the belly of each star and then usually handfeed the lion a silverside or krill who is too slow to get food on his own otherwise. I go slow...if the muscle ( or whatever) is gone without a trace in about 2 mins I may feed a little more....if after a few minutes they are barely poking at what remains of the muscle (or whatever I started with), I'll remove it and consider feeding time done.
The main problem I've noticed is that when these guys start tearing into the food, there are tons of tiny little pieces (size of about a nailhead) that just go scattering everywhere. I try as best as I can to remove as much as possible, but I'm sure I'm not putting a dent into what is actually settling into crevices about the tank.
I'm actually debating about whether or not it may be better to start feeding live food. When I used ghost shrimp to entice new additions to start eating everyone in the tank would gulp it down whole (except the picasso who does it in two bites) - definitley way less mess! Although then I'd be concerned about the eel getting food since the only reason he seems to stand a chance with the muscle is that no one else can pick it up and run away with it (*yet*).

 

[sean48183]

Man that is a horror story. Sorry to hear that. I think anyone who owns a large tank has that fear.
That is some kind of load on that little tank with those messy guys. Definately in need of a skimmer here. Since you are going to a bigger tank I would do one of 2 things:
1)Cheap skimmer off ----. Try a prizm pro. Works great for a 60g or less tank. If you get this send me a pm and I will give you tips on using it. Had one on my 55g for a few years and worked good after I got if figured out.
2)Buy a skimmer you are gonna use on your big tank. Problem is most of these are for In Sump. The Coral Life Super Skimmer they say is a hang on the back but I don't know how good it will be for your big tank.
Good luck and happy reefing.

 

[srfisher17]

Unless you are getting some ammonia reading; why worry about food crumbs? A well functioning bio-filter should reduce this stuff to nitrates (which are harmless to fish at moderate levels (say 60ppm); just as it does with fish waste, etc. A good skimmer and mechanical filter, along with good flow and pwc should keep any fish-only tank healthy. Functioning LR will keep nitrates down; but that really isn't a problem in fish-only tanks.
As to a skimmer; I love Aqua-C; but the Remora is too small (IMO) but the Urchin Pro should work well. IMO, you get more for the $ by using an in-sump model when you can.
BTW, you don't want to hear this, but that CT will turn into a very aggressive fish anytime. Even though its small, it will; especially in a crowded tank. Both triggers will shred your lion and chew any invert; the fact that they behaved today doesn't mean tomorrow will be OK. It won't.

 

[jennln]

Yes, when I stocked my tank I went solely on the advice of my lfs and didn't really know what I was getting myself into. After learning more about clown triggers I had already pretty much figured that pretty soon he would need to move into a home of his own and was planning to dedicate a 150 gallon (That's my understanding of what he will need) solely to him. I was hoping to do that sooner than later but obviously this new mishap has changed my plans around a bit.
I'm actually considering now what my first plan should be is the repair or replacement of my 240 gallon so that I can relocate all current inhabitants except for the lion fish. I may keep him in the 60 and add a few more appropriate tank mates for him in that tank and call it home. Would the sea stars be okay to house permanently with the lion? Geez...I wish I had found these forums before I took the plunge and started stocking. I'd also like to add a 150 that I could set up just for the clown. Now I do have to ask, and hopefully someone here would know....he is still quite the juvenile (about 2 1/2-3 inches). At what stage could I expect his tune to change? I'm just trying to figure out about how long I have to get that 150 up, running and established?
As far as the skimmer goes, now that I'm thinking of the 60 as a more permanent housing I suppose I would like to get the best skimmer I could afford for that particular tank and then in the near future find an ideal skimmer for the larger tank once I get it repaired/replaced. What would be the best option in that case ?
Oh and I should add amazingly enough even though the nitrates are high my ammonia reading is fine.

 

[srfisher17]

This is a complicated thread for an old guy like me; so I may have mentioned this. IMO, as long as your ammonia is OK, don't sweat the nitrates. Lots of folks will disagree, but I've never seen any study that shows nitrates harm fish. What's the upper limit? I don't know, but Bob Fenner points out that fish have been kept successfully with nitrates in the hundreds, even thousands of ppm. In fish-only tanks, if you stay under 60ppm (a stab in the dark), you'll be fine. Because of the load and mix of fish; just watch everything closley, things can go from ok to disaster in a hurry---given your circumstances. BTW; just what are you using for filtration & circulation right now? As to the CT: a 3" CT can (and probably will) start terrorizing his tankmates at any time. Aggressive fish+ crowded conditions=stress=Hannibal Lechter.

 

[small triggers]

I have a 150g fowlr, my nitrates are always around 40ppm and i havent had any problems with that. Though i get green water sometimes and have to run my UV more when that happens. The ASM mini G is a great skimmer for the small tank. Also, as far as your clown trigger goes, mines about 5 inches and he hasnt gone nuts yet, but some start young so i hear. My LFS had one about 7in long in a tank with about 6 other fish (125g) and he was fine ??? Whatever you do, get a few good books. Anything recently by Julian Sprung, Bob Fenner and Scott Michael are good. Its much easier to do more research now, than have another big mistake. Good Luck.
and as far as being crowded, I had all my guys in a 35g for about 6 months,, they were okay with about 100lbs of LR to hide in.

 

[small triggers]

OH here are pics of Mine,,, Take some shots of yours for us to see.....

 

[ironeagle2006]

Jenny here is my biooad right ow in my 150 fowlr along with my skimmer used. I have 2 yellow tangs 3 inches each Read sea Sailfin 5-6 inches rescued from a 45 gallon tank 4 inch Blonde Naso 7 Inch Blue Hippo 6 in Lunatic Wrasse 4 in Queen Fresh from QT along with a 3 in Koran 2 SFE one is 18 other is 12 inches and 2 triggers Niger 5 in Bursa 3 in and a 7 in DFP. My nitrates stay at less than 20 PPM with a 10% WC every 2 weeks. Skimmer is a Red Sea Prizm PRO rated for 300 gallons and I get 24 OZ skimate a week out of it easy. Filtatriion is a PAIR of 1000GPH Toms Wet drys and a HOB Fuge with LR and Cheato growing in it. Also I run 160 LBS LS and 100 Lbs LR total in my tank. for extra circulation I have a pair of Koralla 4's on the side and a #3 in the middle stopping any dead zones in the water circulation. Yes my tank is HEAVY on bioload yet I do not have any WQ issues with my maintance and low feeding I do also helps any food that does not get eaten in 3 mins comes out Nori stays in for an 90 mins max however Nori lasts 45 mins normally before the whole sheet is GONE.

 

[jennln]

Okay well I decided to get a skimmer as soon as possible so I went out to buy local rather than having one shipped. The store had two options - corallife super skimmer 125 or 220. I ended up with a coralife super skimmer 220. Now I've got a whole other mess lol....this thing is BIG - bigger than I expected it to be. Because of limited space available after everything else under the tank I decided to first try installing as a hang on. Well in order to make all the components fit I had to remove the glass top on one side of the tank. In less than 5 minutes, before I even had the skimmer all set up to go, my eel had discovered this new "opening". I had my back turned for all of a minute while I was moving cords around to get everything off to the side to plug it in, turn back and my eel is flopping around on the floor. I got him back in asap........not a fun time trying to catch that guy! He's doing fine thank god and needless to say the skimmer as a hang on is not an option. So under the tank we will have to go. Unfortunately there is no more space in the sump (looking into getting/making another but that's a whole other post lol) I can stand it next to the sump but there is not enough space heightwise for me to hang it on. Since I can't hang it on, the hose from the pump to the skimmer is getting crimped trying to go over the side of the wet/dry. So I need to find another more flexible option for hosing so that I can get this thing up and running. Heading to Home Depot or Lowe's today to see what I can find.
On a side note, my lion is appearing to be a bit more defensive with his tankmates now always within close range to him. I think my wrasse was stung yesterday. He was flipping out quite a bit for some time and in a period of respiratory distress. He's calmed down and acting normal now. Tomorrow is feeding day so we will see how that goes. Then to make matters worse, I also got a call yesterday that another fish I had ordered is in and will be ready for pick up on Monday after quarantine at the store and making sure that he eats. Ummmm......now what. This guy is a good 3 1/2 - 4 inches already - and while tolerating the current situation, I'm pretty sure my guys are already none too happy about the new found close quarters that they are in. I'm thinking introducing another right now with them already a bit peeved may be asking for disaster. I'm going to see if the store would mind holding that guy for a bit until I resolve the tank issue first. Ugh this could not have happened at a worse time.
Another thought I wanted to run past you all (my apologies for turning this into one mess of a post lol), but it was suggested to me that I add a few macroalgaes to my dt. Nice ones could add some color I suppose, but apparently from what I've been told it could help with my nitrate levels a bit more than just having what I do in the refugium. Thoughts on this?
Thanks!!

 

[jennln]

Originally Posted by small triggers
http:///forum/post/2894010
OH here are pics of Mine,,, Take some shots of yours for us to see.....
Wow...that is close quarters! Hey if yours were okay for that time, it gives me a lot of hope for my guys - thank you!
My wrasse and grouper are in my avatar...I'll try to get more pictures up in a bit if I can find my camera ~ it's around here somewhere.

 

[jennln]

Okay here's a few pics.....
First the full size of that avatar....yes there's chaeto in the tank because both these guys like to "sleep" in the chaeto....
This is usually how bedtime selection starts....

And this is how they will usually end up for the night...

Had to turn off the light for the lion to come out and say hi....

The triggers (excuse the "fuzz"...the wrasse slapped the sand as I was taking the shot...

Full tank shot of their temporary housing...

Oh, and the eel is currently under the rocks where the starfish are....but he's too camera shy to come out right now

 

[jennln]

Okay so now I've got the skimmer up and running....I have checked and double checked the installation and all was done correctly but I'm getting a massive amount of microbubbles in the tank from the skimmer. How can I fix this??

 

[rcreations]

Skimmers will make a lot of micro bubbles until they "break in", usually for a couple of days but it can be as long as a week. Did you rinse it really well with warm water before putting it in?
btw, I really like your wrasse. What kind is it?

 

[jennln]

I did rinse it out before adding it to the tank as I do everything but not more so than I've done with anything else. Should I have? That's one thing that was not mentioned in the instructions lol.
My wrasse is *most* commonly known as a cortez rainbow wrasse but I know there are a few other names out there for him as well. He's the one that gets everybody's ooh's and ahh's the most in the tank

 

[rcreations]

Rinsing the skimmer really well just helps with the breakin period, nothing else. But just give it a few days and the micro bubbles will go away. Is it making any thick foam yet?

 

[jennln]

I am getting frothy bubbles at the top and the collection cup is filling with this slimy/sludgy looking stuff lol....best way I can think of to describe it.

 

[jennln]

Okay, last question for the night (*promise*), but the cup for the skimmer has already filled up one and a half times since I've had it up and running. Do I have it set too high? Or is my tank just in desperate need of this, and it will settle down once it gets the crap out? As it's going right now, I'm scared to let it work unattended overnight for fear that it will overflow on me.