Small octopus with big fish

[zeromus-x]

Hey guys -- did a search and I've been reading responses for about an hour or two. Everyone mentions the same basic thing... they'll try to escape, they'll eat the fish, etc. They need x amount of space in the tank. They'll knock down rocks.
I've got a couple fish in my tank right now. It's a 36g. I've heard of people keeping them in tanks as small as a 16g nano. My current fish include two engineer gobies (about 6" long), a firefish goby (about 3"), a blue hawaiian spotted puffer (about 2"), and a little yellowtail damsel that refuses to die (he's been in the tank since day one). I've got a few inverts too... green and black brittle stars, CC star, and a sally lightfoot crab. Along with numerous snails and hermit crabs (which were supposed to be puffer food and he hasn't touched a single invert the whole time).
I don't know what the smallest octopus is that you can buy, but is there a dwarf octopus you can get that would not grow really big at all? Ones I've seen on another site are shipped at 3/4" - 1 1/2" in size, and if that's the case, I don't see how it'd be a major issue. The fish are all quite a bit bigger; the engineers grow fast, and might soon outgrow this tank anyway. The damsel is small but he's aggressive towards the puffer and the firefish anyway, so that's not a huge deal. Snails... eh. The two main things I'm concerned about are the puffer and the stars.
So I guess the question would be... does the octopus I'm thinking of exist, and if so, where do I find it?
Thanks -
- Will

 

[buddahjon]

the size shipped is not the size he will become becarefull i do belive if an octo gets picked on he will shoot ink and probably kill everything in your tank. also keep in mind im not an expert on captive octos but they eat damn near anything in the wild and im pretty sure your fish wont be around for long.

 

[ratpack]

none of your fish are big enough or will be big enough to not be and octupus dinner.
Cephalopods need there own tank, minimun 55g. if people keep them in a 16g that there problem being such ignorants. Cephalopods will eat everything in your tank, everything, and they require excellent water parameter or they will get strees out and start releasing ink wich can mess up the water quality.
do more search, 2 hour are not enough, 2 weeks maybe

 

[aweo]

bobtail squid grow to only a little bigger then a grape, and can be raised captive, ive got a few in my tank but, they WILL eat anything it can catch. I seen mine eat dominos that are much larger then its self
dont know where youd get one though. mine are all from the wild

 

[moby]

It is always a bummer to hear folks tell you bad news about some fish you would REALLY love to have. The natural reaction is to keep asking until someone says"go for it, it can be done."
In this instance though the bad news is that unless you keep it in a species tank alone, it will eat anything it can get its tentacles around. Also the water quality must be perfect, no exceptions. One of the other problems is small octos live very short lives, only the larger species live more than a year.
Now I have kept octos on several instances and had really good luck with them. I would not consider myself an "expert" but over the years I have learned a lot about them and from experience I can tell you they are facinating and very intelligent creatures.
If you are determined to attempt keeping them I would suggest doing a lot of research. The work involved (and it is work) to keep them successfully is well worth the reward.
Moby

 

[aw2eod]

Originally Posted by RatPack
none of your fish are big enough or will be big enough to not be and octupus dinner.
Cephalopods need there own tank, minimun 55g. if people keep them in a 16g that there problem being such ignorants. Cephalopods will eat everything in your tank, everything, and they require excellent water parameter or they will get strees out and start releasing ink wich can mess up the water quality.
do more search, 2 hour are not enough, 2 weeks maybe
Not to be rude, but he doesnt sound like the only one that needs to research.
There are a number of Octo species that would just fine in a 16gal. tank and every size inbetween that and 55gal. Not even species demands a 55gal. tank.
Water quality is highly important, but it's never going to be "excellent" when keeping octos. They're very messy eaters.
They also do not "stress out and start releasing ink". They ink, when scared, to escape from predators. It wont "mess up the water quality", it'll actually stick the octos gills and cause it suffocate.
While octpus species are certainly not for beginners, you dont have to be an "expert", who maintains perfect water quality at all times, to keep one.

 

[moby]

The only one I ever had "ink" was when I opened the bag he was shipped in.
I agree a large tank is not necessary, but the water quality does need to be darn near perfect. They have very sensitive skin membranes and become easily stressed by poor quality water. Unlike other fish they are comprised of a higher percentage of water to tissue ratio, IMO this puts them in the same catagory of difficulty as keeping tridachna clams.
I am in no way trying to talk someone out of keeping them, they are awesome! But, it never hurts to be as educated as you can in any species you keep, especially one that has so many unsual habits and needs. Sort of like keeping sea horses, not a beginners best choice.
Also some octos are not good choices for hardly anyone, blue rings come immediatly to mind.
I say research it throughly and good luck!
Moby

 

[spitfire]

Originally Posted by AW2EOD
Not to be rude, but he doesnt sound like the only one that needs to research.
There are a number of Octo species that would just fine in a 16gal. tank and every size inbetween that and 55gal. Not even species demands a 55gal. tank.
Water quality is highly important, but it's never going to be "excellent" when keeping octos. They're very messy eaters.
They also do not "stress out and start releasing ink". They ink, when scared, to escape from predators. It wont "mess up the water quality", it'll actually stick the octos gills and cause it suffocate.
While octpus species are certainly not for beginners, you dont have to be an "expert", who maintains perfect water quality at all times, to keep one.
A-hole. He was thinking of the animals needs and wants. They are more important than the wants of a reefkeeper. You are definetly right; Zeromus-X isn't the only one that needs to do research.
I agree with Moby and RatPack on this one.

 

[spitfire]

By the way, octopi are surely not fish. Why exactly is this in the fish section?

 

[aw2x3]

{EDIT QUOTE}
I dont see how anything I said was warranted with the {edit} comment.
I wasnt talking to be talking...I'm talking from quite a bit of experiance, successfully keeping octos. I was only stating fact, in my last post.
Considering the fact that you had no part in this conversation, until now, with your rude comments...and have probably never kept an octo, let alone successfully, my only piece of advice is to find converstaion elsewhere.

 

[promisetbg]

Originally Posted by Spitfire
By the way, octopi are surely not fish. Why exactly is this in the fish section?
And why do you keep asking this question on every post? :notsure:

 

[arsen_36]

i saw some type of octopus at the local fish store and they had it in a small 15g. it was pretty small like 2inches in diameter. the guy said that the dont grow big at all all. he did mention though that they are extremely venomous and if it were to bite you would have 15 min. i know it's not much help but im just saying there is one that you could keep in a tank that small.

 

[chunks]

Originally Posted by arsen_36
i saw some type of octopus at the local fish store and they had it in a small 15g. it was pretty small like 2inches in diameter. the guy said that the dont grow big at all all. he did mention though that they are extremely venomous and if it were to bite you would have 15 min.
random guess, but probably a blue ring, they stay fairly small.
Ive kept octos throughout their life period (only about a year) on several occasions. I kept an Atlantic dwarf on two occasions and also a blue ring (Hapalochlaena lunulata) in a 30gal tank. I have not had an issue with them pushing over rocks, or trying to escape, but I would fashion a lid for the first few weeks just in case (you can buy the screen and materials at home depot for far less than a pre-made hood). You should be fine with a 36g with any of the species above, but you cant keep any type of small crab, snail or fish, the octopus will eat anything and everything it can. Any other type of larger octopus would be very difficult to keep in a tank less than 50gal.
You have to be careful when housing a octopus, you cant move quickly or it will release a cloud of ink; an immediate water change is needed after in order to keep the octopus from dying. Water parameters have to be fairly tight, but like mentioned they are messy eaters.
They are wonderful creatures, and have insane personalities; they are a blast to watch.
Try google-ing atlantic dwarf octopus, you should get a few sights that will set you up. Although the blue ring was never agressive, i had a few close calls after he got used to my hand. They are smart animals, and will recognize the difference between a threat and "food delivery device". I regularly fed the octo small crabs with my hand, so once when i was moving some corals around he latched onto my finger to check it out and see if there was any food coming :scared: ...he didnt bite, but its safe to say i needed a new pair of pants. With that in mind i suggest you dont buy a blue ring

 

[coachklm]

{EDIT QUOTE}
these types of istigative comments should be used on a different forum, I was haveing fun reading this thread until then... I'm sure you could have found more constructive words to convey your displeasure at AWs' comments.

And have a nice day....

 

[ophiura]

Man, I have grown real tired of the childish behavior on this board.
And have a real short fuse.
Name calling and foul language like this will not be tolerated, and I will just delete the post I see it in. No wasted time editting for whomever starts it, thanks.
Please stay on topic.

 

[tx reef]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Man, I have grown real tired of the childish behavior on this board.
And have a real short fuse.
Name calling and foul language like this will not be tolerated, and I will just delete the post I see it in. No wasted time editting for whomever starts it, thanks.
Please stay on topic.

 

[bedabug0]

cant we all just get along!!

 

[arsen_36]

lol this site is funny

 

[omgsaltwat]

Just some info.....hth
The bite of the blue-ringed octopus may be painless but it is definetly deadly. Its venom contains some maculotoxin which is more violent than any animals found on land. This poisen is 10,000 times more potent that cyanide. Upon being bitten, the victom's nerve conduction is stopped and paralysis sets in after a few minutes. Paralysis is then followed by death. Some symtoms are as follows:
*Nausea
*Blindness
*Loss of all other senses
If you do see someone get bit you should immediatly call 911, and then apply compresion to the wound as if it was a snake bite. Artificial respiration should also be started as soon as possible. The only way to survive is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poisin has worked its way out of the system. There is no anit-venom to date. :scared:

 

[arsen_36]

so i was right!