So apparently I have copper

[mbingha]

Like the title says... I have copper

. My tank is about 2 months old, and i've got a yellow watchman goby, and a red firefish. I did have a pistol that was paired with the YWG, however I discovered him dead about 2 hours ago. It seemed that any inverts that I bought would die after about three weeks. snails, shrimp, hermits.... to no avail. I test my water regularly, and the ph is always 8.2, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are all zero. I was stumped why everything kept dying. I finally decided to pull out the copper test today, and yup...
So my question is; how do you get rid of copper? My original water was tap (ya, I know... bad idea. thats where it came from guaranteed), but all my water changes since, and top offs have been RO/DI. Without doing a complete waterchange and killing my fish (12 gallon nano) what can I do?
Thanks

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbingha http:///forum/thread/381460/so-apparently-i-have-copper#post_3322873
Like the title says... I have copper

. My tank is about 2 months old, and i've got a yellow watchman goby, and a red firefish. I did have a pistol that was paired with the YWG, however I discovered him dead about 2 hours ago. It seemed that any inverts that I bought would die after about three weeks. snails, shrimp, hermits.... to no avail. I test my water regularly, and the ph is always 8.2, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are all zero. I was stumped why everything kept dying. I finally decided to pull out the copper test today, and yup...
So my question is; how do you get rid of copper? My original water was tap (ya, I know... bad idea. thats where it came from guaranteed), but all my water changes since, and top offs have been RO/DI. Without doing a complete waterchange and killing my fish (12 gallon nano) what can I do?
Thanks

Nothing, copper is in everything...even a 100% water change won't help. I read it even gets into the silicone of the tank seams. So you can keep fish only in that system. At least it is a nano imagine if it were one of the big reef tanks.

 

[smartorl]

My question, did you have the water tested or test it yourself and if so, how old is your kit? Did you buy this tank new or used?
The reason I ask is that this tank is still relatively new. Being new, the system is likely to be unstable easily. I have had it happen on newer tanks and the first indicator are the inverts.
Saying that any inverts you have purchased die within three weeks for a tank that is less than two months old sends up flags.
The trace copper that could come in your water would not be enough to effect anything in my opinion.
I think you need to double check your water. Take it to a store for a second opinion.
If it still comes up positive, follow Flower's advice. I would really be surprised, unless you did buy a used tank.
If it's negative, you need to quit stocking and work on stabilizing your system and adding stock only when that happens.
Two months is not a long time for a system to be running.

 

[mbingha]

ya, I realize that its still a very young tank. and yes, that goodness its just a nano. I'm only using this tank for now because I'm renting. once I buy a house in about a year or so (after I get married) I'll be getting a much bigger tank. The test kits are a few years old, but I wasn't aware that they go bad. I've had the tank since it was new, it used to be a fish only tank about 4 years ago. I had it empty for a couple years while I was away at college.
And the amount of copper that the test read was actually quite high. something like 3 ppm. I'm going to check the RO/DI water later to make sure the LFS isn't dosing copper into their water (where I purchaced the water).

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbingha http:///forum/thread/381460/so-apparently-i-have-copper#post_3323098
ya, I realize that its still a very young tank. and yes, that goodness its just a nano. I'm only using this tank for now because I'm renting. once I buy a house in about a year or so (after I get married) I'll be getting a much bigger tank. The test kits are a few years old, but I wasn't aware that they go bad. I've had the tank since it was new, it used to be a fish only tank about 4 years ago. I had it empty for a couple years while I was away at college.
And the amount of copper that the test read was actually quite high. something like 3 ppm. I'm going to check the RO/DI water later to make sure the LFS isn't dosing copper into their water (where I purchaced the water).
Test kits like medicine, have a shelf life of about a year. I doubt the copper is from any RO/DI water. However where you purchase your fish MIGHT use copper in their tank water. It would be wise to ask your LFS if they do that.

 

[florida joe]

First it is safe to say that at least 90% of all LFS run copper. What was the reading you got from the test? What brand test kit did you use. As far as copper leaching out of silicone. The amount of copper that would be necessary to be absorbed and then leach out to kill fish extremely high.
I personally have never seen any documentation that lethal levels of copper has leached out of silicone

 

[smartorl]

What about leaching out of the live rock Joe? I got to thinking about that last night.
I know my lfs will buy live rock from customers getting out of the hobby sometimes, what's to say that they didn't run copper. I never thought about my rock possibly coming from a copper system. It got my mind going.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/thread/381460/so-apparently-i-have-copper#post_3323120
First it is safe to say that at least 90% of all LFS run copper. What was the reading you got from the test? What brand test kit did you use. As far as copper leaching out of silicone. The amount of copper that would be necessary to be absorbed and then leach out to kill fish extremely high.
I personally have never seen any documentation that lethal levels of copper has leached out of silicone

OP said the copper was killing the inverts, not the fish. Inverts are very sensitive, it could be something as simple as a penny buried in the sand that a child tossed in..

 

[florida joe]

IMO while your rock can absorb copper and have it leach out the proses of it leaching out is very slow. The amount of copper you stated was shown in your test would have killed any inverts within hours not weeks. I would buy a poly filter pad and run it. After a few days check its color for evidence of copper. It is my experience that a bad copper test kit will give a lower than actual reading of copper. Your reading of 3ppm is extremely high without you dosing with it.

 

[u mike]

how much rock is in the tank, if only a nano tank replace the rock. you said somewhere down the road you want a larger tank. let the rock that may have copper in it get bleached out then use it for base rock when you up grade.

 

[mbingha]

I've found the source of copper... its not from any water coming in. The tank itself is about 5 years old, and about a year ago when it was at my parents (while I was off at college) the heater busted. I knew it left metal in the bottom of the third chamber, and I had gotten it out, but it was in there for some time. I'm assuming that once it got in the system, even after it was cleaned out, there was no getting rid of it.
As a side note, I'm going to just go ahead and upgrade anyhow and get a jbj 28 gallon hqi tank. I wanted something larger, and the PC lighting wasn't enough for what I want to do with this tank anyhow. I'm still going to get a polly filter so that I can help remove some of this copper for the time being untill the other tank gets set up and cycled, and I'm going to get my LFS to check the water just to be sure my copper test was right.
Yes, 3 ppm is extreamly high, and I think the test is a bit innacurate. However, I am convinced that there is still copper in the system (albeit much less than the test showed). The test was a small capsule that was in a sealed container, so I doubt it has gone bad. The other tests, i'll have to agree, have probably seen better days. When I start up my new tank I'll be getting a new test kit, and using RO/DI water. I won't be cutting any corners this time. I should have known better since this isn't the first tank I've setup, but I had gotten over anxious and tried to get the ball rolling a bit too quickly.

 

[monsinour]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/381460/so-apparently-i-have-copper#post_3323166

OP said the copper was killing the inverts, not the fish. Inverts are very sensitive, it could be something as simple as a penny buried in the sand that a child tossed in..
You do know that the mint hasnt used copper in pennies in a really really long time right? I mean its been since atleast the '70s. It actually costs more to mint a penny than what its worth.
edit: http://www.livescience.com/mysteries/070129_penny.html or http://www.wisegeek.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-penny.htm
and if you find one of those 1943 non steel pennies, can I have it please? LOL I have a few of the steel pennies. Love my "wheat back" collection.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/381460/so-apparently-i-have-copper#post_3323404
You do know that the mint hasnt used copper in pennies in a really really long time right? I mean its been since atleast the '70s. It actually costs more to mint a penny than what its worth.
edit: http://www.livescience.com/mysteries/070129_penny.html or http://www.wisegeek.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-penny.htm
and if you find one of those 1943 non steel pennies, can I have it please? LOL I have a few of the steel pennies. Love my "wheat back" collection.

Interesting...I used the penny for my example because I had a friend who couldn't keep coral, or inverts. He didn't know what was wrong...turned out a kid had put a penny in the tank. That was 4 years ago...so it must of been an old penny.

 

[slice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/381460/so-apparently-i-have-copper#post_3323404
You do know that the mint hasnt used copper in pennies in a really really long time right? I mean its been since atleast the '70s. It actually costs more to mint a penny than what its worth.
edit: http://www.livescience.com/mysteries/070129_penny.html or http://www.wisegeek.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-penny.htm
and if you find one of those 1943 non steel pennies, can I have it please? LOL I have a few of the steel pennies. Love my "wheat back" collection.
The mint has not used much copper in pennies. The copper color of pennies is copper, 2.5% worth of copper.
this from:
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/?flash=yes&action=fun_facts2
The Composition of the Cent
Following is a brief chronology of the metal composition of the cent coin (penny):

• 
  The composition was pure copper from 1793 to 1837.
• 
  From 1837 to 1857, the cent was made of bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc).
• 
  From 1857, the cent was 88 percent copper and 12 percent nickel, giving the coin a whitish appearance.
  The cent was again bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc) from 1864 to 1962.
  (Note: In 1943, the coin's composition was changed to zinc-coated steel. This change was only for the year 1943 and was due to the critical use of copper for the war effort. However, a limited number of copper pennies were minted that year. You can read more about the rare, collectible 1943 copper penny in "What's So Special about the 1943 Copper Penny.")
  In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc.
  The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). Cents of both compositions appeared in that year.