So, before I do this....

[rabitt]

I've been considering a saltwater aquarium for a long time, since owning my first tiger barb (cannibals! all of them!) at age 8. I've been considering a nano for a lesser amount of time. Don't get me wrong, I adore my Betta and Bill is simple to care for, but I would still love to capture a little bit of the ocean. [insert wistful look here]
Because I live in a smallish apartment (and thank god on the ground floor), I'm considering a small tank, five to ten gallons or so. Currently the Betta is in a generic $20 Petsmart type 2 gallon hex-shape tank. Perfect for him. He sits on one side of my computer monitor and cheers me on while I work and play. The idea is to put the saltwater tank on the other side. I'm not sure what fish, if any, I could put in so small a tank. Also, being a cancer by birth, I'm rather attracted to the idea of a small crab, but again, I don't know what kind, if any, I could put in it. I fully intend to use both live rock and live sand, and I would certainly like to add corals. Bill has live plants, so it's only fair to the other side.

Again, is that possible in such a small tank?
My next thought is a kit from an apparently decent company that includes a lot of stuff that I don't have the foggiest idea how to describe (besides boggling and maybe necessary?) with a ten gallon glass aquarium. I have a better idea what kinds of fish and clean up crew could go in a ten gallon. But I'd rather like the balance of keeping a pair of two gallons on my computer desk.
I keep hearing that larger is better and easier to keep stable. I just don't have THAT kind of money, and certainly not the space. Part of the appeal of a smaller tank is the fact that my cats don't pay attention to smaller tanks, much less fit into them. The position on the desk is secure, and tucked under the hutch for additional protection. The maine coon is smarter than she looks.
So, thoughts, feedback, yeas or nays, take a number, get in line, let me hear it.

 

[demartini]

First off, if money is going to be a problem, saltwater isnt the best thing to get into. Saltwater tanks can be very expensive. Even with a small tank such as a 10g you gonna spend a few hundred. Even more if you want coral.
If you plan on getting corals i would go with a 12g nano cube, in there you would be able to keep crabs, corals, and a couple of fish. If you wanted to stay with a 2 gallon, you wouldnt be able to keep fish in it.
If you want a crab, an emerald crab does a good job cleaning your tank.

 

[zanski]

def. 12 gallon AquaPod. 10 crabs, 6 snails. 2 false percs. or a bleny whould be the only fish i would keep in a tank that size. zoo's are cool corals and so polyp groth would be cool also. Good Luck. i would def. IMO not go with anything smaller.

 

[rabitt]

My dream would be a very large tank, like three digits in the gallons. That's what I mean by larger and not having that kind of money. *sigh* Maybe one day.... Meanwhile, something less than 20g is a little more on scale for me. If I've got to spend the equivalent of rent on just the glass box, I'm outta my league, ya know?
That cleared up, I keep hearing about nano cubes.... It just seems like a cube (to me) would sort of limit viewing space. Would a rectangle type box be better? I can't tell you why, but I have an odd aversion to a cube. The other system I was looking at is a ten gallon system and rectangular. That would be big enough for a fish or so, right?
Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I know some people have done some nifty stuff in small spaces, but I guess that's the exception rather than the rule. Thanks for talking me out of trying it! Now to break the news to the boyfriend.... hehehe He thought Bill would be enough! lol
I spotted something called a marine betta on this site. Pretty little fish. Would a crab get along with a betta?

 

[imurnamine]

Well, a smaller tank (20 or less) will be much less forgiving when it comes to mistakes, I hear. I'd reccommend you start with a 30 or so. I have a 30 gallon, I wanted to test out salt to see if it was for me. It DEFINATELY is, I'm saving up for a 72 gallon bowfront an a 110 gallon.
I feel you on the Bettas, I have three. <3

 

[gen1dustin]

Bigger is better, but small can be done. Time & patience & knowledge is the key to getting a nano to work. Live sand & live rock are going to be great for you to get.
Them 12 g nano cubes & aquapods are pretty cool, but you could just get a standard 10 gallon tank though. There are crabs & shrimp that could go great in a small tank. Also youv'e got a few fish that could go in there. A crab would get along with the marine betta, but the marine betta is way to big for anything under 50 gallons.
Here's what I would do with a 10 gallon tank. 1 yellow head jaw fish or a firefish, one or the other. Two green clown gobies, 1 blood red fire shrimp, 5 Super Tongan Nassarius Snails, 5 hermits, & 1 emarld crab. If you wanted to put a few corals I would just get enough light for some zoos & mushrooms.
If you don't mind give me your email address & I'll email you something helpful for nanos. It can't be posted on here because it is competition to SWF.

 

[chunks]

Id hate to be a bad influence on your finances, but do it.
When I started with SW tanks a few years ago i started with a 10gal nano; the regular $20 glass rectangle ones, nothing fancier. Dont bother with the $150 nano setups, they arent worth the money if youre handy enough to do most of the stuff yourself. You can get a 10gal acrylic bowfront eclipse for under $40, which comes with most of what you need. If you have enough LR you dont really need a bio-wheel, so you can take that out. As long as you have some filter floss to get the large particles you should be fine. Or just get the regular 10gal rectangle, and a HOB filter, which should provide enough water movement.
The liverock and sand, depending on how much you get, will be about the same cost (40-60). Lighting isnt a big issue if you want to keep low maintenance corals like shrooms and polyps, they wouldnt need much more than 20watts of PC to do just fine. You can buy a 4prong light adapter off line that will fit most 36w dual bulb PCs (email me at djames@oxy.edu for some links). Most of the shrooms and zoos are incredibly colorful, and you can also get GSP and xenia without much trouble.
A lot of people will say that youre going to run into trouble with temp, pH, and evaporation, but as long as you watch your perams it wont be an issue. Its also best to get crushed coral as a sand bed, that will help to buffer your tank. If your office is a relatively stable temp of about 80 youll be fine. When you buy a heater, get a 25w adjustable temp one (spend the extra $5 on the models that allow you to set an exact temp). After you set up the tank and before you put any livestock in, measure how hot the tank gets w/ the lights on, it should be about 78-80. Set the temp to about 76 becuase the lights are going to raise the temp a few degrees during the day anyways. But If your temp reaches above 80, get a small desk fan and have it blowing over the top of your tank, that will evaporate the water a lot quicker, but it will keep it a lot cooler too.
Im not gonna tell you what you should get in your tank, thats up to you, but do post your ideas here so people can give you advice on what would work. With that tank size youre gonna be restricted to blennies/gobies, clowns, or some cardinals. Youre gonna want to avoid aggressive species too.
All in all, you could get a FOWLR nano for under 150, or a reef for under 300 (depending on how much coral you want, and where you get it

).
And dont be discouraged by nay-sayers; a lot of people will say it cant be done, but most of them are saying it because they want to make it seem harder than it is, which in turn makes their own abilities appear greater than they actually are (namely the saltwater-tank-having abilities

).
keep us posted
oh yeh, dont think that this is the only tank youre gonna get. This stuff is worse than cocaine

 

[imurnamine]

I'm not saying, "Don't do it"; I am merely stating to approach with caution.
I'm about to start my first 10 gallon as well. I want low maintenence corals, too... and a shrimp and a clownie fishie. *Is a clownfish junkie*

 

[chunks]

oh no, that last comment wasnt directed at anyone in this thread. Just giving a warning about nay-sayers, thats all

 

[rabitt]

Well, it's going to be a home tank, and the problem with temperature is going to be a big one. My boyfriend is allergic to anything warmer than 75 degrees. It'll need a heater. Bill needs a heater!
As for anyone being a bad influence, I can lay the blame squarely on my mother who worked for an aquarium manufacturer. We had about a dozen freshwater aquariums throughout the house, and one saltwater in her bedroom that I used to stare at for hours on end. Rest your mind, Chunks. I've made the decision, I just decided to tap into the resources available on this message board and get some assistance in making the final leap. ^.^ Also, that kind of advice is the kind I was looking for. Tips on what's really necessary and what isn't.
Aggressive fish? In my tank? Haw. Bill's the only aggressive fish I want. I remember watching two of my tiger barbs tear a third one to pieces. Nobody told me they were aggressive, and it broke my 8 year old heart almost. I had NAMED those fish.... Anyway, temperment is the first thing I look for now.
For anyone seeking to send links and things: the-rabitt@hotmail.com, remind me in the subject line what's going on so it doesn't get deleted as 'unsolicited.' Much appreciated!

 

[chunks]

its actually a lot better to have a colder temperature, its a lot easier to maintain that way. Just set your heater a degree or two lower than you want it in the day (76 or so), because the lights will heat the tank somewhat.
I think the best looking option for you would be the eclipse system, simply because it doesn’t have unnecessary wires or things hanging off the tank. The hex tanks are just too deep to really be effective for corals in a tank this small, so rectangle or bowfront is the best option. I believe the one i was looking at recently comes with a dual prong light fixture. If you remove those fixtures and replace them with a 4prong fixture you can get a lot more lighting for your tank (ill send you the link sometime soon). The work might require some splicing, but itd be about as complicated as cutting some wires and throwing a splice clip on (maybe some superglue to get the fixture to sit right).
Here's an example setup:
10gal bow front eclipse, the wheel replaced with filter floss or phosphorus absorbing paper (algae is an issue)
25watt heater
10lbs of Fiji, the more porous the better (surface area is critical in a tank like this)
10lbs or so of sand will give you a good 2 inch bed. Crushed coral is a must, its visually appealing, but more importantly it will help with Ca, alk, and pH
Replaced 9watt fluorescent with 36w PC, or 18w PC if you don’t feel like doing the work (I believe coralife sells dual prong 50/50s that would fit without mods)
Accurate thermometer, really important in a 10gal
This would be fine for a fowlr or a reef setup. If you decide to do reef, you shouldn’t need to add any major chemicals; 1/8 a tsp or less with every 5gal water change of essential elements should cover it, though you should monitor your Ca levels and add a good Ca sup. if necessary. A good salt mix is always helpful too, mainly because it covers trace minerals and stuff that essential elements doesnt cover (strontium, or molybdenum, one of the two). I wouldn’t worry about iodine levels; you can do a lot more harm with straight iodine supplements than good. A good phytoplankton mix would do your corals well, Kent marine sells some decent stuff.
Honestly, the best advice I can give you is to wait before you add anything. Impossible as it sounds, wait a month or so after the cycle completes to see where your tank is with temp consistency, pH, evap, etc. Put one of those little fake clowns if you have too, or even a chromis or damsel if you don’t mind removing it when you’re ready to add what you want. Waiting for your tank to stabilize is critical, it will save you a lot of money and stress.

 

[rabitt]

Apparently, patience is everyone's friend in this hobby.
Soft corals versus hard corals... is the setup still the same, or are there different considerations? I'd like a nice mix of the two, if there aren't too many special steps, and if I can find a good mix of easy care.

 

[gen1dustin]

Originally Posted by Rabitt
Apparently, patience is everyone's friend in this hobby.
Soft corals versus hard corals... is the setup still the same, or are there different considerations? I'd like a nice mix of the two, if there aren't too many special steps, and if I can find a good mix of easy care.
In a way yes. For SPS hard corals you'll need metal halide lighting, on the other hand you could have soft corals along with LPS hard corals would be fine as long as you have enough lighting whether it be power compact, VHO, T-5. Mushrooms & zoos are going to be the easiest to care for & also will require the least light.

 

[chunks]

I dont think you could get enough lighting on a tank that small for SPS or most LPS (especially not with PC), simply becuase MH will cause major heat issues unless you put it a good 15-20" above the tank (and that doesnt always look good). If you want to spend the money they do sell 7" MH pendants that would be more than enough, but youd have to figure out a way to get past the heat issue, and youd spend a good $250 at least. VHO and T5 are both fine, but again, hard to place on a tank that small. Considering how large they are, it just isnt worth your money to get T5 or VHO.
If you get enough PC lighting, which is probably the most cost effect thing to do (simply becuase MH will open you up to a lot of expensive corals

), you could still run a few LPS. Frogspawn and bubble coral do well under moderate lighting, hammer does ok as well. Ive run Lobo brain coral under PC succesfully, but it was only a few inches under the surface of the water.
If you dont want to do any mods, and replace the normal light with a 50/50 (18watts i think) you could run zoos and shrooms, GSP, and you might be able to pull off xenia, and there are a few non photosynthetic corals you could have (sun coral is pretty, but a bit over rated).
if you do a retro and fit in a 55w PC, you could run zoos, shrooms, most anything like GSP, frogspawn, bubble and maybe hammer (depending on placement). There are several types of non photosynthetic corals that could also be used in a tank like this.
If you get a MH pendant or retro (70-150w), there really isnt much you cant do. Your only restriction would be size and agressiveness, and of course the issue with overheating.

 

[gen1dustin]

I actually got SPS & LPS backwards, but I edited. A 55 watt PC is probally your best choice.