So my LFS service guy says....

[crazyzeus1]

OK...so my LFS service guy came to service our tank today & really frowned upon our first fish in the tank (True Black Percula) which we ordered from an online site.
He said we should never order from an online site because they don't have time to acclimate to a "tank setting" & that the fish they have are given a chance to acclimate to a tank for at least 3 days.
Well...am I not correct in thinking this...What's the diff. in acclimating to a fish tank store & THEN having to acclimate to ANOTHER tank at my house? Isn't it actually BETTER & less stress on the fish to come directly to me & not have to make a stop at the pet store first?
The Percula does have a bit of white slime on his tail (& the LFS guys said his tail was missing some parts...like it had been chewed on). He thought he had a fungus, until I told him we got him yesterday from FedEx & he was ordered on internet. Then he thought he was just under stress & it probably wasn't fungus.
What do you think? Is it better to buy at the LFS if they are a quality dealer?

 

[reefnut]

I'm not surprised he said that... of course he wants you to buy from him. Ordering online is fine...

 

[crazyzeus1]

I pretty much just blew his comment off I knew he wanted to have us buy fish from their store. They kept saying..."You know, the next time we come service the tank, we can bring fish from the store for you." Yea...plus a 50% markup price!
The cleaner shrimp be bought (before realizing that online fish buying was a good thing) were $30 each! And we've already lost one...ugh...

 

[birdy]

Well..... I own a small aquarium service business and the clients that frustrate me the most are the ones who stock their tanks themselves, I don't have a problem with clients wanting to choose the inhabitants of thier tank (I am more than willing to work with them to pick out what they want, even meeting them at the LFS to pick stuff out) but most of my clients don't have a clue what to look for in a healthy fish nor do they know much about compatability. They see something pretty and in it goes. I work with a LFS and I pick up most of my fish from them, I usually pick out fish myself and I try to get stuff that has been in the tanks for at least a week and I know what to look for in fish diseases. If I order stuff online or get stuff fresh off a shipment then it comes home with me to my QT tanks where it spends a couple weeks with me to be sure it is healthy.
I am not totally against mail order, but I think they especially should be QT and really all new fish should be QT.
I am much more likely to give a client a replacement fish at cost or free if I am the one picking out all new inhabitants of the tank.

 

[crazyzeus1]

Birdy-
Thanks for your insight from the other side of the story

 

[jambi0n]

crazyzeus1,
please e-mail me. jambi0n@yahoo.com. I would also like to get some true black percs and would like to know where you got them.
Thanks,
J

 

[reefnut]

Good points Birdy... sounds like you take care of your clients very well!! With your comments it's obvious that you're more worried about the health of their tanks than you are making a dollar.
If the guy here had the same concerns as Birdy and wasn't trying to just turn a buck then I would say listen to him and allow him to be involved with future purchases. Unfortunately not everyone has the same genuine concerns and good intentions...

 

[nm reef]

I agree with Birdy....I also maintain a couple of systems for clients....29gal fish only that is slowly being converted to a reef...90 bowfront fish only...240 community reef...and a 90 gal semi reef built into a wall....and one condition with each of my clients is "no livestock additions without prior approval"....if they want to decide on livestock I refuse to take responsibility for maintenance...period!
But.....I think for hobbyists that have a feel for maintaining their system....and those that want to take care of their own tank hands on....its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other....purchase locally after seeing and observing additions....or purchase on-line and acclimate your own......either way I'd consider a quarentine prior to adding any new fish livestock. :thinking:

 

[celacanthr]

yes but also many LFS's don't quarintine anyway, and also have interconnected tanks.

 

[nm reef]

Yup...any fish addition should be quarentined.....I keep any new fish addition isolated for 4-5 weeks before placing them in a established display....

 

[crazyzeus1]

Originally Posted by NM reef
Yup...any fish addition should be quarentined.....I keep any new fish addition isolated for 4-5 weeks before placing them in a established display....

What is the easiest home method to quaraitine?

 

[escape2thewater]

Originally Posted by crazyzeus1
What is the easiest home method to quaraitine?

You would just need to set up a small tank, specifically for quarentine purposes. Like just a 10gal or 20gal tank is fine usually for most small reef fish. Simply cycle the tank & set up some places for the fish to hide so they can feel secure and take care of them like normal, they are just kept separate from your main tank until you KNOW they are disease free & safe to add. HTH. Also some people like to put some type of backround or blocker on the back & sides of the tank to make the fish feel more safe.
Escape
:happyfish

 

[crazyzeus1]

Originally Posted by escape2thewater
You would just need to set up a small tank, specifically for quarentine purposes. Like just a 10gal or 20gal tank is fine usually for most small reef fish. Simply cycle the tank & set up some places for the fish to hide so they can feel secure and take care of them like normal, they are just kept separate from your main tank until you KNOW they are disease free & safe to add. HTH. Also some people like to put some type of backround or blocker on the back & sides of the tank to make the fish feel more safe.
Escape
:happyfish
Thanks for the reply!

 

[crazyzeus1]

OK....now referring to the quarantine thing...
My LFS service guy came yesterday & I was asking him about the quarantine tank & how you keep the water quality high. Our 100gal tank has a sump, protein skimmer, etc...so I just don't understand how the quar. tank stays healthy without all this stuff. Do other reef tanks NOT have these things & do OK?
Well, he told me that it WAS NOT necessary to quarantine any new fish...he'd put them straight into the tank. He said that there's reef-safe treatments for some fish diseases or parasites. And he said if it's got something they can't treat in the reef tank, they can pull the fish out & treat it separate. I would just have to watch for my water levels if I ever noticed any strange fishy-things until I either treated it or removed the fish to quarantine.
Is this crazy, or is it true? I thought that surely, he would tell me I needed a quar. tank & "hey, by the way, you can buy X X X at the store!" but he didn't say that. Just said he doesn't quar. his fish & it wasn't REALLY as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.
We are more than ready to add fish, but I'm scared to death to hurt something in the tank already (corals, cleaning crew, leathers)...so we don't have any yet!

 

[bang guy]

I have a couple of comments.
If you're really choosey about the look of what you put in your tank then mail order isn't for you. Not all fish are perfect so if you want a perfect specimen then visit the LFS so you can see exactly what you're getting.
Personally, the fish I've received in the mail have all been very healthy, beautiful specimens.
If you're looking for an Onyx Percula then you're going to be waiting for a loooooooooong time if you only shop your LFS.
Quarantine:
If you have one or two small fish and you don't quarantine then you run the risk of having to catch them and put them in a hospital tank for hypo or antibiotics.
Imagine having a full blown reef with a dozen fish that get Brooklynelle or Ambyloodinium because you neglected to quarantine a new fish. You're going to have to wreck your reef to catch all of the fish and even if you manage to catch them where are you going to treat a dozen fish? A small hospital tank is sure death for that many fish so you're stuck watching them croak one by one.

 

[crazyzeus1]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
Quarantine:
If you have one or two small fish and you don't quarantine then you run the risk of having to catch them and put them in a hospital tank for hypo or antibiotics.
Imagine having a full blown reef with a dozen fish that get Brooklynelle or Ambyloodinium because you neglected to quarantine a new fish. You're going to have to wreck your reef to catch all of the fish and even if you manage to catch them where are you going to treat a dozen fish? A small hospital tank is sure death for that many fish so you're stuck watching them croak one by one.
Thank you so much for your comments. The quar. tank just makes sense to me as far as why you would need one, so it shocked me when the LFS guy said I didn't really need to do it.
The one question I still have is...how do you keep the water in good condition in a quar. tank?

 

[carshark]

well i think your LFS guy is full of crap, and especially about the chemical treatments, and what about your inverts?...ok so here goes an example, lets say his "non-QT'd" fish he sold you has ick, and given the amount of inverts you have in your tank, you cant copper your tank. so there are "reef safe" chemicals out there, ok fine, so you stop skimming and any carbon that you have, you must remove, bc it will strip the meds right out of your tank. so now you have valueable inverts, Live rock, live sand, and everyhting delicate that requires excellent water quality, well youve stopped your skimmer, removed carbon or any othe rfilter media that could strip the chemical out of there. now you have to gauge how much actual water is in your tank, which would be a guesstimate, bc there is no way to actually calculate how much actual water is in there without removing it all (which would crash your tank and have to re cycle) so you may overmedicate, or undermedicate. now you have also a tank full of chemicals, and a parasite, along with your prized organisms.. super!!! ok now the other hand, you have to set up an emergency QT, which monitoring water almost at 3 hour intervals, water changes everyday, and making sure your little guy makes it in a non established tank that has the water changed everyday. think of all the salt you have to mix, think of all the water you would have to replace...doesnt a QT thats established sound a little easier? or do you think first of all he was mad that you didnt pay him his minimum 200% markup on a fish, so he can also sell you chemicals which work temporarily if at all? most dont from my experience. so then you have risked the life of all the inverts you have and may not have adequete levels of the chemical in the water, to do anything and the parasite lives but yet you have spent 100 plus dollars on chemicals that may not work.....hmmm its up to you but id say go with the advice of people who arent gonna make a buck off of you that know exactly from first hand experience what to do....
IMO just my 2 cents

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by crazyzeus1
Thank you so much for your comments. The quar. tank just makes sense to me as far as why you would need one, so it shocked me when the LFS guy said I didn't really need to do it.
The one question I still have is...how do you keep the water in good condition in a quar. tank?
this kinda goes with what i just stated, but if you have an established QT then you dont have to worry about, weekly 10% H20 changes(when organism are present) check your levels normally, unless you are doing a chemical treatment, which in that case any active carbon should be removed and 1/3 water changes before each next treatment....

 

[crazyzeus1]

Carshark....LOVE IT! Thanks for putting the whole scenario out on the table! I totally agree with you...
Now...my question still in my head...how the heck does the water stay "quality" in a small quar tank? In my head (which is probably wrong), my protein skimmer, filters, etc. in the sump do all the work & keep the water levels where they're supposed to be. Am I wrong? If a quar. tank doesn't have all of this equipment, what keeps the water good? Me? Do I have to check it multiple times a day?
The last thing I want to do is lose my inverts!

 

[carshark]

well like i said, in an established QT you just run a small filter on it, get a powerhead for movement , a heater , and piece of PVC pipe for the guy to have some cover, if you have an organism in there, weekly 10% water changes on it just like normal maintnence on your main tank. paint the outside walls black or blue, so he cant see out, get any kind of light for it, a normal book light will work just fine,this was you can see if his disease is healing, or if he has any to start with... and monitor the levels just like you would with the main tank. i would shy away from a substrate, that way if you do decide to chemically treat a new fish with a disease you can accurately gauge how much water is in there, some people paint the bottom of the tank black as well so there isnt any reflection, so he doesnt stress out... :jumping: