sohal v. hippo tang

[saka bra]

_I have a slight problem during feeding. i have a sohal tang that gets a little aggresive to my hippo tang during feeding. but it is only when the hippo tang goes to the sohals side of the tank, and just chases him out, but is not aggresive on the other side of the tank (maybe he is just deffending his territory

). but during tha rest of the day the aggresion is almost non existant. ive had the sohal for at least 3 months now, just wondering if he will get more aggresive. the sohal is about 4-5 inches and the hippo is about 6 inches and they are in a tank of 150 gallons right now, the hippo can fend off the sohal but im worried that if the sohal gets any bigger that might change. i am hoping that they can settle things out, but i know it is a sohal and that may not happen. ive decided that if it gets worse i will take back that sohal, but its such a beautiful fish. is there any thing i can do to settle the differences?
_why do some fish act more aggresive during feeding but not during the rest of the day?

 

[kjr_trig]

Yeah, Sohal's can be BMF's, particularly toward Tangs. My Sohal is the undisputed Alpha of my tank. I would just maybe try spreading the food out as best you can. The more the food is spread around the better the Blue can avoid his aggressive cousin during feeding. As to will the aggression continue to get worse, tough to say, mine has actually mellowed, everybody in the tank knows he is the boss and he rarely has to prove it. However he is my only Tang, and my tank is 2 feet longer than yours. I know I will likely not be able to add another Tang while he is in there....Is he nasty toward anybody else? Hate to ask but have you considered getting rid of the Blue Tang instead?

 

[saka bra]

_ya, i have a naso about the same size but it is the same deal with the blue, he leaves them alone unless they go to his side during feeding.
_Haha ya my sohal would be much more aggresive if i didnt have my french angelfish, (hes like a freakin parhana). My Frenchy is like a dictator

_ya, i thought about getting rid of the blue but i like him alot more than the sohal. cuz he is really friendly and colorful and fits great with the rest of the fish.

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by saka bra
http:///forum/post/2881350
_why do some fish act more aggresive during feeding but not during the rest of the day?

competition. feeding is what a few minutes once or a couple times a day if that. simply dont want another fish taking food out of their mouth so to speak. my clown is the same way. territorial fish are more likely to do that. he's definately not going to get better with age and size but if feeding is the only time it happens I dont think I'd take action especially if the hippo is holding its own.

 

[sean48183]

Any tang with a sohal or powder blue is doomed. In the wild they protect a small patch on the reef and all the algae with it. If any other tang enters it will be pounded. I don't if you have ever seen that blue planet show with the powder blue pounding on about 100 convict tangs. Imagine that in a small glass box with the convicts had no escape. Certain death which is what your hippo is facing in due time.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by sean48183
http:///forum/post/2882226
Any tang with a sohal or powder blue is doomed. In the wild they protect a small patch on the reef and all the algae with it. If any other tang enters it will be pounded. I don't if you have ever seen that blue planet show with the powder blue pounding on about 100 convict tangs. Imagine that in a small glass box with the convicts had no escape. Certain death which is what your hippo is facing in due time.

That might be a little extreme, I kept a Naso for many years with an Achilles which is every bit as nasty as a Powder Blue, there are a lot of people that keep other Tangs with those fish.

 

[sean48183]

Really. I hardly ever see tanks with powder blues and a bunch of other tangs. I'm not saying it is impossible and every fish is unique but they are very aggressive tangs. Not so much with other species of fish just tangs. Was your Naso alot bigger than your powder blue.

 

[kjr_trig]

Originally Posted by sean48183 http:///forum/post/2882367
Really. I hardly ever see tanks with powder blues and a bunch of other tangs. I'm not saying it is impossible and every fish is unique but they are very aggressive tangs. Not so much with other species of fish just tangs. Was your Naso alot bigger than your powder blue.
I haven't followed Chuck's thread as much lately, but I know he has over 10 Tangs from the Acanthurus family, and at least 30 Tangs total.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/243448/start-of-one-big-sps-tank/780

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by sean48183
http:///forum/post/2882367
Really. I hardly ever see tanks with powder blues and a bunch of other tangs. I'm not saying it is impossible and every fish is unique but they are very aggressive tangs. Not so much with other species of fish just tangs. Was your Naso alot bigger than your powder blue.
I've seen more powder blues with other tangs than I can count. Have seen the blue planet too. our tanks dont have multiple powder blues protecting an algae patch on the outskirts of the reef invaded by a school of convict tangs trying to eat it all in one sitting. if powder blues werent capable of being tolerable of other tangs those powders on blue planet sure wouldn't tolerate each other prior to the convict tangs coming yet try putting multiple powder blues in your tank. alot fo things that happen in the ocean dont happen in a tank.
Sohals are a different beast, grow twice as large and more intolerable of other fish in general. Even so there are plenty in community tanks and as far as fish in general there are alot more fish intolerable of other fish in general (same species and otherwise) that we keep all the time (hawkfish, triggers, thalassoma wrasses) in multiples or with less aggressive fish.

 

[sean48183]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig http:///forum/post/2882705
I haven't followed Chuck's thread as much lately, but I know he has over 10 Tangs from the Acanthurus family, and at least 30 Tangs total.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/243448/start-of-one-big-sps-tank/780
I take it Goodwin is chuck. Well chuck also has a 600g tank(Which is quite beautifully packed) and enough tangs that that sohal and powder blue can disperse their aggression evenly. In saka bra's 150g I wouldn't recommend keeping this many tangs.
As far as powder blues teaming up in the wild. that was probably 1 male with 3 females. You guarentee that combo when I buy 4 at the lfs I'm in.

 

[t316]

Originally Posted by sean48183
http:///forum/post/2882367
Really. I hardly ever see tanks with powder blues and a bunch of other tangs. I'm not saying it is impossible and every fish is unique but they are very aggressive tangs. Not so much with other species of fish just tangs. Was your Naso alot bigger than your powder blue.
I have a yellow, a naso, and a powder blue (powder being the largest by far, and he is the wimpiest by far). No aggression from this dude at all. Kjr does have a lot of knowlege with tangs, so I'd pay attention to him, even though he/I disagree on some things...
...the Sohal is starting to interest me...ummm...

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by sean48183
http:///forum/post/2883013
As far as powder blues teaming up in the wild. that was probably 1 male with 3 females. You guarentee that combo when I buy 4 at the lfs I'm in.
tangs release gametes in mass congregations. they dont form pairs or herims which would be of little use for the way they procreate. based on that and the fact there arent any external distiquishing characteristics between males and females what would make you theorize there was a male and three females?
they look to be tolerating themselves and another greatly outnumbered species

thats one lucky male if that is a herim

 

[saka bra]

thanks for all the info guys. but it seems as though they are getting along better and im going to give the sohal more time to see how he is going to fit in as time goes on.

 

[sean48183]

This is a quote from Wetwebmedia. This dude dives with these fishes all the time as well keeps them as a hobbyist. Just food for thought but by all means do anything you want.
Tankmates:
Similar appearing fishes, and ones utilizing about the same ecological niches should not be placed with Powder Blues. Other Tangs will often be challenged, sometimes to the extreme, and other algal grazing fishes may not fare any better. As they can be overtly territorial, it is best to place your Acanthurus leucosternon as the last fish in the system. On the issue of how many, one is the magic number for all but the more huge (thousands of gallons) systems. Though they’re sometimes encountered in the wild in shoaling schools of hundreds of specimens, most often there is incessant fighting with more than one in an aquarium

 

[kjr_trig]

Cool pictures there....Sean, I agree and would never put 2 Acanthurus Tangs in a 150, or not even in my 240l.....I was referring to your statement of "Any Tang with a Powder Blue or Sohal is doomed", this statement is over the top and not accurate. Given the right sized tank and adding them in appropriate order it is very possible for these fish to coexist.

 

[sean48183]

Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2885351
Given the right sized tank and adding them in appropriate order it is very possible for these fish to coexist.
I agree with this assessment but I think the majority of people on here are not working with the approriate size tanks to make this possible and make the mistake of combining a PBT with other tangs and sooner or later spells doom. I know as you are an experienced hobbiest that you have added a fish at some point that caused great havoc in your tank and great stress in your life and wish you hadn't done it. I don't think there is a hobbiest out there who hasn't done it at some point. So I am just trying to save someone the misery of going thru this if they don't have to. The PBT for all its beauty and delicate looking appearance is one bad a$$ hombre!

 

[saka bra]

yes, i added these fish in a certain order.
-i originally added the sohal as the last fish, but since my frenchy was established before him, the frenchy was constantly beating him up pretty bad. i had to take the angelfish out for five days to let the sohal settle in without worrying about being attacked. (the frenchy is a BAMF). so then i let the angel back in and everything calmed down.
-but all the other tangs i have were deffinatley added long before the sohal to help minimize possible aggresion

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by sean48183
http:///forum/post/2885274
This is a quote from Wetwebmedia. This dude dives with these fishes all the time as well keeps them as a hobbyist. Just food for thought but by all means do anything you want.
Tankmates:
Similar appearing fishes, and ones utilizing about the same ecological niches should not be placed with Powder Blues. Other Tangs will often be challenged, sometimes to the extreme, and other algal grazing fishes may not fare any better. As they can be overtly territorial, it is best to place your Acanthurus leucosternon as the last fish in the system. On the issue of how many, one is the magic number for all but the more huge (thousands of gallons) systems. Though they’re sometimes encountered in the wild in shoaling schools of hundreds of specimens, most often there is incessant fighting with more than one in an aquarium
quotes from bob fenner and wet web media arent going to change what I already know can be done and have seen too many times to count. you cant ignore the "often" "can be" and "sometimes" in those statements. species alone can not take into account size, sequence of introduction and individual temperament. if you want to follow unwritten tang rules and protocols the rule of thumb for tangs are NO simular shaped tangs should be placed with each other. that means NO zebrasoma tangs should be kept with any other and NO acanthurus tangs with simular shapes should be kept together but multiples of these tangs are kept together and coexist frequently in tanks as small as 75g (which I dont agree with. I also dont agree with needing something larger than a 150g to keep two acanthurus tangs besides sohals/clowns and perhaps some uncommon species).
per your source bob fenner
Territoriality can be a very big problem regarding 1) relative sizes, 2) relationships of species one to another, 3) size of the system, 4) number of fish and other livestock in the system, 5) order of introduction to the system, 6) and, individual personalities. For practical purposes, one Tang to a tank is a safe bet. Very rarely do the more disc shaped species such as Yellows, Convicts, or Browns mix well in a small system. The larger species in the genus Acanthurus should be designated as the dominant fish in the system.
fenner also states in the tang FAQ
I’m aware that other authors, even highly respected scientists’ ratings are different than your dealer(s) and mine probably consider my "judgments" too harsh. My advice is indeed, not to rely on what’s stated here and/or any one other source of information. Before purchasing these (or other livestock) do your best to gather as much pertinent "accurate, significant, and meaningful" information as you can from reading, other hobbyists and the industry.
bottom line is powder blues are "generally" a little more territorial than your average tang but not even close to the level of incompatibility with other tangs that you are painting ("Any tang with a sohal or powder blue is doomed").

 

[saka bra]

i know that by adding the sohal, there was a poossible risk and it was a risk i was willing to take, just like adding certain corals with my angelfish that have been a success. but however, i purposly got a sohal that was smaller than any of my other established tangs. and hoping that i could keep these fish together. so far the sohals aggresion during feeding as it seems to me is just showing his teritory and is nothing major. but if he ever get bad like ive heard and read upon then i will simlpy take him back. and all will be peacful.
- i know i will most likely get quoted by this and get scolded by this text

DGAF. but im here to help and be helped and to learn and to teach.
- i would love to post pics of all of them. but my tank is at my moms house but the only time i can go on the internet is at my dads house

so its kind of difficullt