Soldier Suicides

[hlcroghan]

Originally Posted by JDL
http:///forum/post/2747312
You better figure out a lot of stuff before you have a kid. The military is no different.
they closed a loophole, what will really get us guys?

A loophole?? Are you kidding? So you think that it is okay that if you have a 6 month old child that they send both of the parents to war? Who should the child go with? What if both the parents get killed? I think it's absolutely assinine. One of the dumbest things I have ever heard of the military doing. I have a feeling you don't have children or you would appreciate this more.

 

[jdl]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2747317
A loophole?? Are you kidding? So you think that it is okay that if you have a 6 month old child that they send both of the parents to war? Who should the child go with? What if both the parents get killed? I think it's absolutely assinine. One of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I have a feeling you don't have children.
you would be incorrect. I have 2 kids. I am also not in the military. If i was in the military i would have a plan or wouldnt have kids. The military is not a standard job, but you seem to think it is. You want all the benefits, but none of the sacrifices.
It is wartime, why are you having a kid? Lets not blame the military for ones own irresponsible actions.

 

[hlcroghan]

Okay, first of all. When my ex and I chose to have a child, 9/11 had not happened yet. The law was also still in effect that if one of the parents was deployed, the other one was not allowed to go so that they would be able to care for their children. You have to remember that there are single parents in the military as well. At one time, they cared about that. They do not anymore. That is what I can't believe. Every single person I knew in the military got either divorced or separated from their spouse including myself. The deployment my ex went through directly caused our divorce. I don't believe in any way that you should expect it to be a normal job. However, I think that they should give a crap about the people that are fighting and their children and spouses.

 

[hlcroghan]

Originally Posted by JDL
http:///forum/post/2747323
If i was in the military i would have a plan or wouldnt have kid.
Sure, okay. Do you know how many people have children that don't plan it? It doesn't always work that way. I really want to leave my child with someone else other then their parent while I leave for months or years. When my ex got back from war, his son did not even know who he was. He was very young and didn't remember him. Can you even fathom how hard that was for him? Now can you imagine if both of us had gone and someone else was raising our child? Then the child gets thrown back into the household with two parents he doesn't even know. Can you think how that would destroy a family? How can a soldier be expected to go to war under those kind of conditions? He or She should be able to know that that child's other parent will at least be caring for that child not some other person.

 

[jdl]

Sure, okay. Do you know how many people have children that don't plan it?
and that seems to be the problem, not the military. Sure i wouldnt like it one bit, but people need to take responsibility for themselves and not expect the government to socialize everything for them.

 

[jellyman1213]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2747243
On a side note, I appreciate the support from the people on the board. I simply wish the military would be more proactive about how they are treating the people that are giving up their lives. Besides suicide rates, you should see the divorce rate......it is something like over 100% because you get several who get remarried again for the money benefits. Most marraiges and relationships cannot survive those long separations, even when the two people truly love each other. Oh and this will really get you guys. There used to be an article preventing two parents from being deployed at the same time. Yeah.....not anymore. My ex and I almost both went. They tried to force me but I was only two month postpartum from having my son and you can't deploy until you are four. So who takes care of the children while you both are gone?? You better figure it out before it is time for you to leave.
It is now the military's fault that marriages do not work?? I thought that was crazy until i read further that you chose to have a child knowing that you both could be deployed!!! Why should one get special treatment. It sounds to me a loophole in the policy was discovered and fixed. I'm not sure what you are thinking. The more comments you make the deeper the hole you dig.

 

[jellyman1213]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2747317
A loophole?? Are you kidding? So you think that it is okay that if you have a 6 month old child that they send both of the parents to war? Who should the child go with? What if both the parents get killed? I think it's absolutely assinine. One of the dumbest things I have ever heard of the military doing. I have a feeling you don't have children or you would appreciate this more.
If you have made the decision to join the Army then you should be able to make the decision not to have a child until your military obligations have been fulfilled. I wanted to join until I met my wife and decided that I would be miserable having to be away from her and now that I have kids I could never do it. I have all the respect in the world for those that serve but hearing comments like this puts a sour taste in my mouth. I think you went into this thinking you had a comfortable non war time 9-5 job and now that you are being called upon you think it is unfair. Give back all the money you have received if you do not want to fulfill your obligations.

 

[hlcroghan]

I guess I am not making myself clear. When I chose to have a child there was still a law in effect preventing the deployment of both parents. 9/11 had not happened yet. There hadn't been any type of serious deployments in almost 20 years, like we have now. My point is that if we are supporting the men and women in the military and their families, we shouldn't be tearing them apart. In no way do I think that if two parents are in the military they should be allowed to both be deployed at the same time. That is not a loophole at all. That law was in place to protect families. This is not like we are fighting some civil war that is taking place on our doorsteps. We are fighting another country's war for them. We did what we were supposed to do in the first place but we are still there. Soldiers are continuing to come back damaged, there is very little in place to help them. Families continue to split due to the long deployments and lose everything they worked for. Are there benefits to being in the military? Certainly. But losing my family and wanting to kill myself because I can't cope with the stress and losses doesn't seem worth what we are doing to me.

 

[hlcroghan]

Originally Posted by jellyman1213
http:///forum/post/2747357
If you have made the decision to join the Army then you should be able to make the decision not to have a child until your military obligations have been fulfilled. I wanted to join until I met my wife and decided that I would be miserable having to be away from her and now that I have kids I could never do it. I have all the respect in the world for those that serve but hearing comments like this puts a sour taste in my mouth. I think you went into this thinking you had a comfortable non war time 9-5 job and now that you are being called upon you think it is unfair. Give back all the money you have received if you do not want to fulfill your obligations.
Not at all. I did my time already. I was actually deployed overseas to Iwakuni for a year. I have all the respect for everyone who served with me. I worked my butt off after 9/11 on 24 hour shifts and definitely earned my paycheck. I am glad that you changed your mind and chose to stay with your wife because you would have most certainly been away from her. I was in the Marine Corps, not the Army. Big difference. Completely different laws and rules. It puts a sour taste in my mouth too that the families and military personnel are treated this way. I don't think it is unfair to go to war if it is needed. It's what they the military is there for.

 

[kingsmith]

Originally Posted by KingSmith
http:///forum/post/2747077
Seems Like you've done alot more for the country than all of us

I aqppreciate it. I also Agree alittle extra effort on behalf of the goverment and I mean real effort not campaigns and counsiling they don't want after the fact, but something PREVENTITIVE its a shame that we so often side with a goverment who takes advantage of its people and not those actually willing to die for us. Who is the better Patriot youe average soldier watching his friends die and fighting for us or the fat cat politicians who campaings and lifestyles spend well beyond what any average American could expect to see as income in there life time
WHERE THE RESPECT FOR OUR MILITARY MEN AND WOMEN, just because they signed up doesn't mean that they should be treated badly and not cared about, And come on think about it what kind of soldiers do you want out there crazy bitter disheartened one's, or the kind that would gladdly sign up again and defend because they are treated decently. Anyone who doubts the extremely low moral rate in the military or thinks its no big deal or who cares they signed up for well its so sad you don't have a heart

 

[hlcroghan]

I think that I am going to let this post go. This is a passionate subject for me and one that you probably can't appreciate unless you have lived through it and been involved in it, just like anything else. Everyone has differing opinions and I am letting myself get too worked up over this when I could be doing more to support the friend I have still over there with emails and letters. To all of you who supported what I had to say, thank you. To those that didnt understand, I sincerely hope that you never have to experience the government's lack of care for the people and the families who fight for the freedoms you enjoy.

 

[jdl]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2747381
To those that didnt understand, I sincerely hope that you never have to experience the government's lack of care for the people and the families who fight for the freedoms you enjoy.
I never will be i n this situation because i am not in the military. Once again, if i was, i wouldnt be having kids. The military is not the root of all evil. People just cant understand the military isnt a 9-5 job at the office. When they dont like the rules, they call foul.
Sorry for your troubles, but all are self inflicted. Goodluck on your journies.

 

[oscardeuce]

From the medical stand point ( I'm Board Certified in Emergency Medicine) these "numbers" at this point are just that, numbers. Yes, they have human lives behind them, but without a good study to find out what is behind the numbers, they have no meaning. Are the hours too long? There are other jobs with long hours. Is it the isolation from the family? Other profession also miss family milestones. Is it the press coverage downgrading the good things are soldiers are doing? Is it the soldiers themselves? Are their expectations of the "job" out of line with the reality of the job? Why is it WWII vets did not seem to have much of a problem with coming home? Is it PTSD, Shell shock, or a normal response to an abnormal condition? You cannot come away from combat unscathed. It is unfair to blame without finding the cause.
Treat the disease, not the symptoms.
IMHO, in general, all of us are a bit spoiled, and we expect life to be easy. I'm as guilty as anyone, I find myself feeling bad about how hard I'm working, not with my family, etc. Then I step back and remember there is always someone working harder. We've lost the pioneer spirit, and we need it back. That way we have more defenses against the challenges that life throws our way. I've cared for many concerntration camp survivors, they are some of the most stable people I've met. What are their secrets, what are their defenses against seeing H#ll on earth? That is what we need to know.

 

[kingsmith]

.
Spoke Too Soon

 

[hlcroghan]

I never will be i n this situation because i am not in the military. Once again, if i was, i wouldnt be having kids. The military is not the root of all evil. People just cant understand the military isnt a 9-5 job at the office. When they dont like the rules, they call foul.
Sorry for your troubles, but all are self inflicted. Goodluck on your journies.
It's okay, that is your perogative and opinion. Like you said you aren't in the military and have never been so you don't really know what you are talking about. We can agree to disagree.

 

[hlcroghan]

Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2747409
From the medical stand point ( I'm Board Certified in Emergency Medicine) these "numbers" at this point are just that, numbers. Yes, they have human lives behind them, but without a good study to find out what is behind the numbers, they have no meaning. Are the hours too long? There are other jobs with long hours. Is it the isolation from the family? Other profession also miss family milestones. Is it the press coverage downgrading the good things are soldiers are doing? Is it the soldiers themselves? Are their expectations of the "job" out of line with the reality of the job? Why is it WWII vets did not seem to have much of a problem with coming home? Is it PTSD, Shell shock, or a normal response to an abnormal condition? You cannot come away from combat unscathed. It is unfair to blame without finding the cause.
Treat the disease, not the symptoms.
IMHO, in general, all of us are a bit spoiled, and we expect life to be easy. I'm as guilty as anyone, I find myself feeling bad about how hard I'm working, not with my family, etc. Then I step back and remember there is always someone working harder. We've lost the pioneer spirit, and we need it back. That way we have more defenses against the challenges that life throws our way. I've cared for many concerntration camp survivors, they are some of the most stable people I've met. What are their secrets, what are their defenses against seeing H#ll on earth? That is what we need to know.
Wow, I really agree with a lot of this. Thanks for the intelligent post. We shouldn't expect all our problems to be solved. I definitely think they need to be more proactive. I think it is a mixture of all of those things that cause the problems. Who knows why some people come away with a good experience and some don't and some are on the verge of killing themselves and some are not? I had a lot of good experiences while I was in for sure. I enjoyed a lot of my time and got to learn and experience a lot. My simple wish is that they would set things in place to care and support those who go to war better.

 

[groupergenius]

Wow, can you just imagine being in an Army hundreds of years ago? When they just lined up across from each other and shot volley style. Do you think those soldiers thought like we do now?

 

[hlcroghan]

Well I think that it was a completely different type of war too. They were fighting for their families' lives from immediate and eminent threat. I was big supporter of 9/11 when it happened. I am no longer a supporter of our troops dying and being away from their families for Iraq to set up their government. Our government should care more for it's own people before another country's. It's just my opinion though and definitely subject to disagreement. I am sure soldiers 200 years ago were very proud to die for their country, just as the ones are today.

 

[oscardeuce]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/2747416
Wow, I really agree with a lot of this. Thanks for the intelligent post. We shouldn't expect all our problems to be solved. I definitely think they need to be more proactive. I think it is a mixture of all of those things that cause the problems. Who knows why some people come away with a good experience and some don't and some are on the verge of killing themselves and some are not? I had a lot of good experiences while I was in for sure. I enjoyed a lot of my time and got to learn and experience a lot. My simple wish is that they would set things in place to care and support those who go to war better.
Basic Training is supposed to help "weed out" those who will not survive the military experience. It is meant to tear down and rebuild a recruit into a trained memebr of the military. Medical residencys are the same. There are some physicians who cannot work in the Emergency room environment. They have no right being there. They will be miserable, and kill someone. On the other hand, they are no better or worse , they just need to find their niche. IMO, if you look closely at these suicides, I'd bet you'd find most of these people should not have been in the military in the first place. They did not have the ability to cope with the reality of the job. They are no better or worse than the rest of us, that is just not their niche. They need to be gently released before basic is over. If you read the book "Starship Troopers" That is how they did it, you could just leave basic, no questions asked. You were gently returned to civilian life because they did not want someone who was not totally dedicated to the military lifestyle.

 

[stdreb27]

I'm curious never done any research but what are military suicide numbers vs suicide numbers of non-military personel?