Someone please explain this phenomenon

lionkiller

Member
Ok, I start my take in late 2003. I started just using Mollys (5) and converted them from fresh water to salt water. I let the tank cycle using them. I had at this time an undergravel filter set up using crushed coral as my subscrate.
After it cycled I added live rock ( I have a total of about 50-65 lbs. of rock. I don't remember. I also at this time added 6 mexican turbo snails. a chocolate chip starfish, a bubbletip star and a brittle star. Two little conchs (don't remember what kind). The brittle star didn't make it after about a week. Everything else survived.
My Mollys then had babies (very cool to see happen) but now I have 15 mollys in the tank. I then add a Yellow tang, and two of the orange Nemo's (to lazy to spell out the entire name). 4 various damsels and a lawnmower blenny.
I performed regular water changes that averaged roughly every two weeks based off of water analysis.
I lost one nemo in this month of time and three molly babies (one was eaten though by the mother molly. I know for a fact because I watched it). The water conditions did change a little but not enough to cause stress in the fish according to the LFSs around here I consult with. So on my merry way. I gave one LFS all the mollys but one, since my conversion was done, and I no longer needed them. The tank was doing alright for about another month. I was informed at this time that sand is better than crush coral and I should atleast add some sand to my crushed coral bed. I mixed the two and added about one inch of sand during this time.
Then, I introduced a mandarin goby, purple tang, Porcupine puffer, Arrow crab, Fireflash Goby, a Horseshoe crab, A coral banded shrimp, a scallop, another chocolate chip star, and about 7 tiny blue legged hermit crabs. All over about a two-three month period.
Then boom I lost all four damsels. The LFS said my water had real high Nitrite amounts and that was why. I had checked them daily and didn't find this. So I took samples to two other stores I frequent. They said it was fine. Now the damsels should be hardier than everything else........I am told anyway. No one could give me a sufficient answer so I for got about it. Two weeks later I lost the puffer. Same scenario....no one could explain and thie fish bodies appearred free of infections when I brought them in to the LFS. Ok amonth goes by. (still performing water changes as needed. Then I had my pump go out for my under water filter. I think this was out for maybe two days without me noticing ( I know dumb). So I went and got three powewr head feeds to replace my canister filter and my dad gave me to side tankl emperor filters. (The kind that suck in the water then release through the waterfall and "bio-wheel".
Everything seems ok now, my levels did rise so I performed another change and lost 6 hermit crabs and can't find the horseshoe crab at all. I wait about two weeks and everything seems good. I decide I want a dwarflionfiss. I also buy an engineer goby and two damsels. I introduce them. The Lionfish is doing good for about a week then I see it floating upside down. I contact one of two LFS I have come to rely on. They tell me he might have an "air bubble and it should no cause for alarm . WRONG! ( I know longer go to this store.) The Lion dies. Then My purple tang goes the following day. Check levels they appear fine, My Main LFS agrees with my analysis. Next day the other nemo and yellow tang die. Then everything starts dying. All I end up with left is one snail, One hermit crab, the engineer goby, the fireflash goby, a molly, and a damsel, Chocolate chip starfish (2 of them), and my bubble tip star. No one can tell me what is going on.
So I basically give up. I stop monitoring water as closely and stop water changes all together. I only add water as the tank evaporates (tap water at this point no less as I belive I am going to lose everything. I still feed regularly. Ok, Now for 8 months I haven't done a single water change. Everything is thriving!!!!! A month ago I start adding fish again figuring I am onto something. I added a nemo, CB Shrimp, a pepermint shrimp, yellow tang, scooter goby, two damsels, 9 hermit crabs, and a dwarf lion fish that didn't survive acclimation.
Everything is still living and I haven't changed any water and use tap water no less to add back. Can someone explain this!?!?!?!?!!?
I am not complaining because my tank operation is suddenly very easy! I never did find the horseshoe crab either.
 

cvk531

Member
no idea what to say, but i feel bad for you man, lol, you lost a bunch of moneys worth fish!
good luck on future fish
 

whaa...?

Member
ive delt with something like that in freshwater
to the point that pet store suxs dont buy there so yea
all together how much did u spend on all those fish that died over and over?
 

whaa...?

Member
yea i buy from this site!!!!!!!! and also ofcourse V.I. Pets cause they stick a lionfish in a frichen 15 gallon and i feel sorry for him so much
 

skrimpz

Member

Originally posted by cvk531
I never trust pet stores like petsmart , and *****, etc.
i always go to a marine store

I don't think that is always true just because someone has had a bad experice at one of these store you can blame all the people that work there, everyone has had issues with Local/ marine store too, i have a least. You can't blame veryone for one person giving you bad advice
 

cvk531

Member
i never trust them though, they just sell them, they may know some stuff about saltwater fish, but, i would rather go to a marine store who specialized in marine aquariums.
By the way, can a lunare wrasse go with a starfish?
i was told they can't, the lunare will eat the starfish,

I want a starfish
 

lionkiller

Member
I have spent easily over a thousand. I stopped counting after that.
On a good note I successfully acclimated a fuzzy dwarf lionfish this weekend. Now if I can only get the little guy to eat.
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
if everything went down the way your thread reads, i think you may have gone a bit too fast in stocking the tank.
slow it down, have patience, do your hw, and you should be fine
 

kdfrosty

Active Member
I'm really interested in your story, and am also from Albuquerque. I have been doing marine aquaria for nearly 10 years now, and have a few questions.....
Being from Albuquerque, I am familiar with all, if not most, of the LFS' in Albuquerque and Santa Fe.
First, which LFS(s) are you dealing with? There are only a few that I would find trustworthy, and I wonder if you have been dealing with them. If so, I might need to find yet another reliable LFS, much like you should.
Second.....DAMN! That is a lot of fish, crabs, etc. that you have lost!! Slow down, and don't go overboard loading your tank full of stuff.
I've had a Valentini Puffer die and kill my whole tank, only after sitting in the tank dead for a couple of hours (I was at work). I believe that they have poison in their glands which is released when they die. I might be wrong....read up on that.
Anyways, maybe we can swap some stories, and advice about some Albuquerque/NM pet stores. Let me know...I've included some contact info:
AIM: FlipYa505
MSN: kyles@si-corp.com
Yahoo!: KDFrosty
On a lighter note, I read this board all the time, but this is my first post. I look forward to BSing with you guys in the future!
:jumping:
 

himandher

Member
maybe you are on to something. We went through something very similar when we first started our tank in 2003 too. After almost losing everything we also quit doing frequent water changes and close monitoring ( there were only 2 damsels a maroon clown, and a goby in the tank) It was then 150 gallons. For almost 6 months, I know that is a long time, but we were so frustrated.
So I told him either we take care of the tank so that we can enjoy it, or get rid of it.
In Jan. of 2005 We went out and bought a new 135 gallon with beautiful canopy and stand, and we bought the primo MH and atinic light set up that fits in the hood.
We tested all water in the old tank, and suprisingly levels were great. We pulled the remaining fish out, and syphned out about 80 gallons or so into the new tank, filled the rest with new water. we rinsed all of our live rock, and moved it to the new tank, rinsed all the sand (which was very dirty) and moved about half of it to the new tank. Moved the old filter, sump, skimmer, over to the new set up. Acclimated our old fish, and added them. Basicly the same tank, just 15 gallons smaller, and with new lights.
Everything was going great, levels still reading perfect. Started adding corals, and more fish a little at a time. A powder blue that died in 2 weeks. a dwarf stingray that died in 3 weeks, and an orange shoulder that died in 3 1/2 weeks. (We did not add these all at the same time.) There are a few others too. Tests are still reading ok.
LFS advised that water quality was good.
The corals we have added are okay, however, the only fish left are the ones that were in the old tank.
The only thing that is different is, the new lights, and that we are doing the suggested water changes using water from the LFS that he has trucked in from the pacific bi weekly.
We quit adding fish, we only have our TROOPERS left.
so who knows about this stuff.... Go figure.
 

kdfrosty

Active Member
Excuse me if this is wrong, but I got the following email from someone who is "banned" from posting...not great advice, but thought it might help....
"Just wanted to pass on my thoughts on the thread. Basically the poster stopped water changes and things started thriving. That is exactly my experience since the late 70's. So if you chat with the poster tell him, yep and no surprise.
I also lived in Albuquerque from 1990 to 1997, and alamogordo from 1980 to 1986. I thought that was interesting also.
Will leave you alone now."
 

sw65galma

Active Member
Some thoughts:
Way to fast to add fish, especially ones that have such large bio loads.
Also when doing water changes, you have to be careful not to change your salinity or PH to much.
Also make sure you have NICE test kits...Even if they cost you $100 (which they won't) it's still cheaper than all the money you lost on fish.
I've too noticed that you can OVER check your tank. With the exception of Amonia and Nitrite, high levels of anything if they rise slowly enough, won't hurt anything. Or atleast worse than fast changes.
Also Temps need to be monitored all day and the rise and fall of temps with lights can cause tanks to overheat.
Even constant changes in water temp up and down a few degrees can cause severe stress to fish.
Also ditch the Undergravel Filter ASAP! All your doing is trapping waste IN the tank!
 

mbrands

Member

Originally posted by cvk531
I never trust pet stores like petsmart , and *****, etc.
i always go to a marine store

I don't even know of a PetsMart that sells marine fish. I think they are a good bet as far as pricing of hard goods, but I definitely agree that a smaller owner-operated marine store is the place to go with questions. Keep in mind though that some of the smaller shops are just in it to sell you something. I found out a LFS in Phoenix has all of their employees on a commission based pay. Yikes!
 

skrimpz

Member

Originally posted by mbrands
I don't even know of a PetsMart that sells marine fish. I think they are a good bet as far as pricing of hard goods, but I definitely agree that a smaller owner-operated marine store is the place to go with questions. Keep in mind though that some of the smaller shops are just in it to sell you something. I found out a LFS in Phoenix has all of their employees on a commission based pay. Yikes!

No they don't. And they don't sell them because they don't believe in selling wild caught fish, taking them from there natural enviroment is wrong. Espicallyt the way that many wild caught fish are captured, they put a chemical in the water that stunns the fish and makes them float to the top of the water so they can net them, not to mention that the chemicals kill the coral and ruin the ecyosystem. I believe they are looking into carring a very small collection of auqacultered fish ( the most common ones probley clowns and a few damsels i would assume)
 

squidd

Active Member

Originally posted by KDFrosty
Excuse me if this is wrong, but I got the following email from someone who is "banned" from posting...not great advice, but thought it might help....
"Just wanted to pass on my thoughts on the thread. Basically the poster stopped water changes and things started thriving. That is exactly my experience since the late 70's. So if you chat with the poster tell him, yep and no surprise.
I also lived in Albuquerque from 1990 to 1997, and alamogordo from 1980 to 1986. I thought that was interesting also.
Will leave you alone now."

"someone who is "banned" from posting"...
"poster stopped water changes"
"thriving"
"my experience since the late 70's"
There is a reason this poster was banned...Did he mention "plant life"...??...
:D
 

pwnag3!!

Member

Originally posted by Squidd
"someone who is "banned" from posting"...
"poster stopped water changes"
"thriving"
"my experience since the late 70's"
There is a reason this poster was banned...Did he mention "plant life"...??...
:D

hmmm i was thinking the same thing.
 
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