Spraybars, surface aggitation and overflows

J

jstdv8

Guest
So I was considering making a spray bar that would be connected to the return line from my sump that would rin the entire perimeter of teh top of the tank and be hidden by the plastic moulding on the tank.
can I make this thing loop all th way around and back to itself and still get pressure at all the holes in the system? Or will the holes that are closer to the return line push a majority of the water?
The purpose would be to use this setup for my surface aggitation (And I like ALOT)
and then move my koralias down towards the center of the tank.
Would be as simplae as making the PVC setup, drilling holes every 3-4" or so, hooking everything up and turing the pipe in the elbows until I get the desired effect?
Anything else I should think about?
I'm also thinking of doing either..
A.) A larger overflow
or
B.) Another overflow of the similar size
right now I think my overflow is a 600 GPH.
Ive got a Quietone 4000 return pump that I have to neck down to almost nothing to get it to match (or slighty under) the overflows GPH.
I'd like to be able to open that baby up all the way and add more flow to this new spray bar for aggitation.
Any suggestions there?
would simply adding a second U tube to my current overflow have any effect negative or possitive on what I've got right now? I've got a e-shopps overflow that I was told is rated at 600 gph.
Thanks
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
yeah, something like that might work too, but with teh same questions, does the majority of the flow end up going out the frist couple holes or can you get even flow throughout the system.
The downside to coreys fantastic gizmo is that loc-line isn't cheap and PVC is :) His is certainly nicer looking though.
I'm thinking of a closed ring at the top, hopeing that that will allow all holes to have equal pressure blowing out of them. I don't know if it works like that or not though.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstdv8 http:///forum/thread/382045/spraybars-surface-aggitation-and-overflows#post_3331643
yeah, something like that might work too, but with teh same questions, does the majority of the flow end up going out the frist couple holes or can you get even flow throughout the system.
The downside to coreys fantastic gizmo is that loc-line isn't cheap and PVC is :) His is certainly nicer looking though.
I'm thinking of a closed ring at the top, hopeing that that will allow all holes to have equal pressure blowing out of them. I don't know if it works like that or not though.

My pump is 600 gph like yours, and Corey said it will really push the water out.
I know on a spray bar the end is capped to create pressure and push water out.
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
I have been looking into DIY spray bars - I think the area of all the holes in your spray bar has to equal or be slightly more than the area of the supply to the spray bar.
Edit: area of the supply to the spray bar
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/382045/spraybars-surface-aggitation-and-overflows#post_3331648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jstdv8 http:///forum/thread/382045/spraybars-surface-aggitation-and-overflows#post_3331643
yeah, something like that might work too, but with teh same questions, does the majority of the flow end up going out the frist couple holes or can you get even flow throughout the system.
The downside to coreys fantastic gizmo is that loc-line isn't cheap and PVC is :) His is certainly nicer looking though.
I'm thinking of a closed ring at the top, hopeing that that will allow all holes to have equal pressure blowing out of them. I don't know if it works like that or not though.

My pump is 600 gph like yours, and Corey said it will really push the water out.
I know on a spray bar the end is capped to create pressure and push water out.
I could cap the far end of it too after its wrapped around the perimter of the top of the tank. capping or making a loop doesn't matter to me, I jsut need to know which one will work best for my application.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
I think that unless you have a large pump then you're going to have a hard time ever getting an even amount of flow out of each of the holes. If you had holes drilled at every 3/4" or so on center then I think you'll find that the water is barely going to trickle out. On the other hand if you just do a few well placed holes that don't quite equil the diameter of the pipe then you'll create a small amount of back pressure and that will force the water out more like jets which would be better to try and create the effect that you're after. And yes, cap the ends. Water is always going to take the path of least resistance.
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
Your theory on the holes closest to the return pump is correct. Those holes would push the hardest. You could probably do a little tinkering with different size PVC at the outlets to boost pressure kind of like building a venturi, but to me that would be a lot more work and not really hidden... Several options come to mind. Not really sure if you need PVC the perimeter of your tank....Strategically placed would be better IMHO....You could use something like the SCWD. Which would give you alternating flow from opposite sides of the tank. Another option or thought that comes to mind is again utilizing PVC and a pump, but you could use Penducators on the ends of the PVC....These are factory built and act as a venturi in a sense and really increase the flow output.....I have a few laying around that I have, and if need could post a pic if you want at some point to clarify what I'm talking about. I would also think that in your PVC run along the top of the tank you would need some sort of valves to regulate the pressure to the outlets
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
I think if it was looped all around the top of the tank you would almost need two supplies to even the pressure around the manifold or spray bar. Let say we had a 1" feed - just say the ID is 1"
Area =0.7853 in^2
15 holes = 0.26"
20 holes = 0.22'
30 holes = 0.18"
40 holes = 0.16"
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Al,
so lets say I did 20 holes, would the pressure coming out push alot of water out of each to make real good waves you think? or am I kidding myself wanting to get great aggitation with this type of setup?
It's cheap to make and I have another overflow, maybe I'll just make one for a few bucks and see what it's like...
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Right now I am working on a tank that is going to have one spray bar the the overflow in between, it really doesn't cost alot to try I quess, I am going to look for some engineering formulas in the office based on pressure and flow and hole sizes, the only thing we need is a pressure, and that is something we don't really measure alot in this hobby. Maybe as a test rig you could tap a pressure gauge in your spray bar, I will do the same, it would also be a good indication if your flow is dropping off. Just some ideas.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
The nice thing about pvc is it's cheap, so if it doesn't work like you like you can always make another one. Pressure or flow regulators don't cost very much either.
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
I am working on a cool spread sheet, I hope some of you guys/gals have excel, I will post when I finish.
 
gill again68

gill again68

Active Member
Ok, so would making the holes go from a smaller dia to larger help with getting the flow even from one end to the other?
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gill again68 http:///forum/thread/382045/spraybars-surface-aggitation-and-overflows#post_3332197
Ok, so would making the holes go from a smaller dia to larger help with getting the flow even from one end to the other?
Yes, I work with in the power industry with similar systems but air, the manifolds are fed with a smaller diameter duct. I could see a system with a spray bar 1" pvc fed by a 3/4" line, to help distribute the flow and reduce the presure loss.
 
gill again68

gill again68

Active Member
Cant wait for the spreadsheet. I think a spraybar will do wonders for my tank. Funny how many of us are working in silence on the same ideas.
 
al&burke

al&burke

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///forum/thread/382045/spraybars-surface-aggitation-and-overflows#post_3332454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al&Burke http:///forum/thread/382045/spraybars-surface-aggitation-and-overflows#post_3332198
Quote:Yes, I work with in the power industry with similar systems but air, the manifolds are fed with a smaller diameter duct. I could see a system with a spray bar 1" pvc fed by a 3/4" line, to help distribute the flow and reduce the presure loss.
What about a system with a 3/4" line that splits into two half inch lines?
Hi Corey, I think that if you split the 3/4" line I would go 3/4" all the way, once I have this spread sheet put together you can play around with it.
 
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