SPS What am I doing wrong here and how to fix it.

[cannonman]

I need your help. Six months ago I got a 75 Gal FOWLR set up for next to nothing, loaded with LR and a nice sump ect.. I finally got around to taking out the CC and replacing it with LS about a month ago. I upgraded to metal halides at Christmas and a couple of weeks ago bought twin seio 1500's hooked into a seio control that ramps them from 50% to 100% back and forth every 15 seconds. I want to raise sps more than anything else- I've had a great little 30gal reef filled with softies for two plus years w/no problems... but now I bought some sps for my newer and bigger 75 gal reef. I bought three large acroporas for 150$ - I thought it was a good deal due to their size and the nice purple color of one of the three. I also bought a yellow scroll coral that same day, That was JAN. 18th 2007. Here it is 02-02-07 and all is not well. The yellow scroll looks great and is going to do fine... one of the three acros, (the one with the best purple color) I THOUGHT was doing fine but now I wonder.. It looks just as purple still, no bleaching anywhere, and the polyps are all out and sway'n in the breez..it's in the top of my tank in between two 250MH. right in a crazy flow spot where it's constantly swishing and switching around.. the polyps do however have some very small and quite short (maybe 1/16 to 1/8th inch long) white strings... I thought that they were maybe sweepers or something.. they look like they belong there but now I wonder it's what I thought.. the reason I wonder is because acropora #2 is brown but has the polyps out too... no little white string looking things though...but now the bottom branches have bleached white and it appears to be going up the trunk and subsequent branches rather quickly.. couple inches in the last two days... also has looks like it is sloughing off a slime type coat... after the slime coat gets carried away the pure white skeleton is exposed... and the slime keeps creeping along and is threatening to devour the entire specimen within the next two weeks (at this rate anyways) Acropora #3 never looked great to start with and looks worse now... no sloughing or bleaching but it is getting more and more pale all the time.. I can't see any polyp extension.. only small brown spots at the base of the scales where the should be coming out from. The acclimation for these three, although bought the same day was different, one or two were acclimated much longer than the other but I don't remember which one was which now. My water has been a problem the whole time, I thought that I could easily fix it but I haven't been able to..here were my perameters on the day I brought the acros home:
Temp 80
Ph 8.0
Nitrate 20ppm
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Alk 1.7
Ca 400
So I did a four gal water change and dosed with seachem "raise alk" also topped off with kalkwasser for a couple of days... screwed up something because my alk didn't really do much but my Ca. went down
On Jan 23 I did another 4 gal water change aqnd tested again
Temp 80
Salinity 1.024
Alk 1.8 Mil eq/L
Ph 8.2
Ca 350
Nitrate 15
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Phosphates .1
On 01-27-07 I did a 5 gal water change
tonight I did a 5 gal water change and tested again after taking note that the acroporas appear to be degenerating quicker (except for the purple one that still looks good)
Temp 81
Salinity 1.0245
Ph 8.2
Alk 1.7 mil eq/L
Ca 400
Nitrate 10
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Phosphate .1
So I installed a phosphate absorbing pad in the sump and came on here to scream for help
Sorry for how long this is but I needed to try and explain the whole situation.. now I need to try and save these if possible.. have to figure out how to safely raise alk...and maybe Ca.... I have one other acro frag in this tank that I put in there from another tank that is healthy and growing with full polyp extention but it has only been in there for a week or two now... maybe I should move it back to it's old home before it's too late.
Please... any advice would be GREAT

 

[michaeltx]

is there anyway to get pictures of them and do you see any red spots on them at night..
also do you if the place you got them from got them wild or aquacultured??
mike

 

[reefreak29]

for acros in my opinion your phos need to be 0 nitrate 0 and alk a little higher

 

[chilwil84]

i would frag some of the acro that is sliming up and going white but dont take any that is showing signs of problem and move it to another tank if possible to have a chance of saving some of it, i am just getting into sps but different types like different rates of flow. i ahave a portites that wont open up unless my tunze660 is blasting it and an acro right near by that likes indirect high flow, the red bugs question could be it, if wild or captive could be it, you might need to try to salvage some frags into another tank and try over sps can be tricky at times

 

[chilwil84]

missed the phosphate and nitrate reading you want zero on them, phosphate removers help but a refugium is better

 

[cannonman]

No bugs on any of them, positive of that- I stare at them, study them, and scrutinize them continously, I would have noticed some by now.. my nitrates are now down to less than 10 and my phospates just barely register at all at point one.. .1 the phos ban pad should take that out pretty quick.. I really like the frag idea and move them to my other tank.... kind of gives me two chances... after all I had one acro in the other tank for several months and it's living and doing well... although I should probably move it back again given the problems with this tank... so what else should I do... I want to fix these problems... what would be the best first step..? These are aqua cultured I think.. came on little stone domes....

 

[cannonman]

Here's the best one out of the bunch, has deeper purple color than what this shows but anyways... this one still looks good and here you can see what I mean by white threads...

 

[cannonman]

here is number two... in between, notice lower branches and trunk starting to bleach...this is the one that is shedding the slime to reveal a dead white skeleton... the "tips" have good polyp extention and still look healthy to me.. I fear that the slime will continue right on up the trunk through all the branches though.

 

[cannonman]

last but not least the third and most sickly of the bunch with lower branches starting to bleach and no polyp extention but if I look close I can still see their tiny little brown crowns inside at the base of the scales so I know it's not all dead...yet.

 

[reefreak29]

that first ones a millipora did u light acclimate? its not as light demanding as acropora , the second might have rtn

 

[cannonman]

No, I really didn't (being honest) I do know better, I know I'm supposed to BUT it was under MH at the LFS so I brought it home temp. acclimated and drip acclimated for a short time and tossed it in... only left my MH on for a couple of hours and then it was out for the night and back to the normal timers.. the top one is really high up in the tank but it is right in between where the two MH are so maybe it will be okay?? I hate to move it since it's the only one doing good.

 

[reefreak29]

the only thing i can think of with sps u really need perfect water conditions phos at .1 is actually pretty high and imo your alk need to be a little higher

 

[cannonman]

Okay, I'll put a bag in tonight with seachem phosphate absorber stuff... Nitrates have been dropping like a rock with all the water changes so I'll continue with that and they should be 0 very soon....what would be the best way to raise alk? I have kalkwasser and some seachem raise alk... the last time I dosed these my calcium dropped so I must have done something wrong.. should I just re read the directions on one of these products and try again or is there a better way??

 

[reefreak29]

i like my alk to be at 3.5
if u have to much alk then your calc will drop
is your alk test kit a good one?
dripping kalc is great

try not to do to many water changes u dont want to recycle your tank
the best thing i did for my tank was i built a 20 gal fuge and i dont even test nitrates anymore there always at 0

 

[gatorwpb]

Cannon, check out the b-ionic 2-part dosing for calc and alk.
My alk levels were low, like yours, and my calc was ~300-330. I started dosing the 2-part and adding kalk to my top-off and have gotten my calc to 410 and alk to 3.66 meq/L
I had what I think was RTN on an encrusting monti because I added it when the levels were low and then raised them over a couple days. I think that stressed the monti and caused some tissue to recede. It appears to be making a strong comeback and my polp extension is big.
So I think theres a chance if you gradually bring your alk and keep your calc up you can save them.
GL

 

[cannonman]

Thank you- I will try that, I have a two part that I can add (won't last long because it's for a nano tank size) and I will try topping off with kalkwasser some more also- the #2 Acro looks worse today, another branch is bright white... farther out on the branches the polyps are still extended so I'm going to follow your advice with the two part dosing and keep my fingers crossed..

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
the only thing i can think of with sps u really need perfect water conditions phos at .1 is actually pretty high and imo your alk need to be a little higher
True and Not True.....Water quality is very important, but "perfect" isn't correct......SPS do need alittle junk, and .1 phos is questionable....I've seen beautiful SPS dominated tanks running more than that......Flow, lighting is a big key......Your alk needs to be consistent and can't have the swing.......Steady.....I try to keep my Alk between 4 - 4.5.....Ca at 450

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
True and Not True.....Water quality is very important, but "perfect" isn't correct......SPS do need alittle junk, and .1 phos is questionable....I've seen beautiful SPS dominated tanks running more than that......Flow, lighting is a big key......Your alk needs to be consistent and can't have the swing.......Steady.....I try to keep my Alk between 4 - 4.5.....Ca at 450
im just a perfectionist when it comes to water quility

anyhow phosphates probably wont kill them but it stunts there growth

 

[acrylic51]

Are you testing both ways for phosphates??? The phosphate tests can so negative or "0" and you can still have phosphates, so there is no "perfect" water conditions or parameters.......tons of variables.....JMO.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
Are you testing both ways for phosphates??? The phosphate tests can so negative or "0" and you can still have phosphates, so there is no "perfect" water conditions or parameters.......tons of variables.....JMO.
your right theres 2 types of phosphates, i take my water to my lab once a week to run all kinds of tests , and i try to keep it to what i think is perfect