Starfish for beginners

[elfdoctors]

I have a tank which has been running for about 9 weeks. I am interested in getting some starfish but my LFS keeps telling me that my tank is too new. My fish are doing well, my water parameters are great (I no longer even have detectable nitrates possibly because I have about 1.5 pounds of live rock per gallon and had a large algae bloom which is now under control with a yellow and blue tang and some hermit crabs). I have one rock with colony polyps which came on a rare piece of live rock and may eventually add a few corals. I have around 3 asterina starfish which are doing well which came as stowaways on some live rock also? Besides the tangs I have two sebae clowns, a strawberry pseudochromis, a six-line wrasse and two cleaner shrimp.
Is it safe to add starfish now?
Does anyone have suggestions for best species?

 

[nicky1.8t]

In my opinion YOUR TANK IS WAY TO NEW TO HAVE SOME OF THE LIVESTOCK THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE. hOW BIG IS YOUR TANK. i HOPE IT IS A 100 GALLON PLUS WITH TWO TANGS. aS FOR THE STAR FISH THE LFS IS RIGHT, A SIX MONTH MIN. BEFORE YOU ADD A STAR FISH. iF YOU NEED GOOD INFO ON STAR FISH TRY TO HOOK UP WITH OPHURIA< i THINK THAT IS HER USER NAME. sHE IS THE SATR FISH GURU AROUND HERE. gOOD LUCK AND HAVE FUN, NICKY

 

[elfdoctors]

My tank is a 75 gallon with about a 10 gallon sump.
I'm aware that two tangs are debatable. I have read some of the posts about this. I have personally seen a 40 gallon tank with the same two tangs. I have two little kids and they really wanted some of the fish from "Finding Nemo" so I put them in. So far they are doing well as they are both quite small. I have been waiting two weeks between stockings and the water parameters are still good 1 week after the last fish went in. What is the danger? With all the live rock I am concerned that there is a fair amount of flake food which the fish are unable to get to.

 

[nicky1.8t]

personally I dont really know, I have just heard that they need a very mature system. I have heard a 6 month minimum. I will put a couplke of stars in my new reef, but will wait for a few more months. I wish I could be more help.

 

[moopiespoo]

For once a lfs is right, your tank is still too new for a starfish. About 5-6 months is a good time to add a star. A good beginner one would be a Chocolate Chip Starfish. Welcome to the boards.

 

[elfdoctors]

Thanks for the reply.
One online store recomends multiple! starfish going in around 10-12 weeks (after some beginning corals!) as part of a cleaner pack. I can understand waiting for six months for corals as they need very stable water quality. The searches I have shown have been primarily concerned about the starfish starving and I can't believe that there is not enough food for a small starfish with lots of live rock.
Any ideas regarding what types to put in first.

 

[elfdoctors]

I was replying to the last reply when the suggestion for a chocolate chip star was made. I have heard that they can be aggressive in a reef setup. I have had some colony polyps for a month already and am planning to eventually get some corals so I would probably not try that one. Thanks anyway!

 

[nicky1.8t]

cc starfish are a no no. They eat corals. That is the only thing I know for sure about stars. sorry but thats all that I have

 

[oregonbud]

Brittle stars are a good hardy star fish, but I agree with the consensus that you should wait just a little longer before you add one.
The issue with stars is not a lack of food in the tank, its rather that stars are fairly fragile and can suffer from osmotic shock which can be caused by the fluctuating conditions in a "newer" tank.
I do realize that your levels have been stable, but true stablity in a tank is not typically measured in weeks, a tank needs to hold its levels for a few months before the system is truly considered "stable". I think I read a post here from someone with much more experience then myself, where they said ,to paraphrase, that a tank is not mature or stable until you can have something die in it, and not have an ammonia spike, because the bacteria have colonized to a level that will take care of the problem immediately.
Patience is a virtue that is well rewarded in this hobby, trust me you do not want to see your star fish start to turn nasty colors, and watch as its skin sheds off while it dies, just wait a few more months, IMO.

 

[elfdoctors]

That makes sense. I'll have to wait before adding a brittlestar.
Thanks.
That also means that the reef packages on this site (with up to three starfish being introduced at once for a tank my size) would not be suitable until the tank is established. What do you use to keep debris clean between rocks? The snails and hermit crabs seem to spend most of their time on top. Do these guys die off regularly that I would have to replace them with a reef package in a few months?

 

[oregonbud]

Personally I think the reef cleanup crew packages are too much livestock for a new tank. Not because the tank can not handle it (with the exception of the starfish) but because there is not enough junk for them to eat, you will wind up actually feeding your clean up crew, which could cause problems because if you wind up overfeeding, you can run into a whole plethora (whoo hoo I have been wanting to use that word for a while) of problems, from cyanobacteria to high ammonia levels.
How many crabs, snails do you have currently?

 

[elfdoctors]

I have about 10 blue dwarf hermit crabs, 1 scarlet hermit crab, 2 snails and 3 emerald mithrax crabs. There is still quite a bit a algae to be eaten (although the tangs have made a great dent in this). A lot of live rock still has dead fragments which haven't worn off. My wife loves to watch the emerald mithrax crabs so I may be getting more. I haven't had great luck with snails but the survivors are doing well and I am switching over to reverse osmosis water.
I also know that I have a colony of worms which show up at night (these are definitely smooth and are not bristly and can stretch for long distances (3-4 inches) then retreat into the rock if lights are turned on) which stay on one of the larger pieces of live rock and have a few small bristleworms. I am concerned that if food bits are not eaten by a cleanup crew that I might be encouraging the worms to propagate (which is part of the reason that I got the pseudochromis and six-line wrasse quickly).

 

[oregonbud]

I am not very familiar with the emerald crabs, so I can't really comment on them.
I would think you would be ok to add 10-12 more hermits for now (since you already have blues I would stick with them if possible) sometimes the blues pick on the reds and steal their shells (usually can be resolved by placing a bunch of empty shells in the tank, but not always)
As far as your worms are concerned, it sounds like spaghetti worms, since you say they retreat back into the rockwork when you shine a light on them - may want to do a search on the board (Bang Guy always has really informative posts on worms, pods, and snails, as well as everything else, Kipass also has a post in the reef forum titled spaghetti worm pic that you may find helpful)
If they are spaghetti worms you do not want to get rid of them, they are actually a fairly beneficial part of your clean up crew. As your tank matures you will see more and more strange creatures, heck thats half the fun of the hobby, finding the new stuff in your tank.
You touched on an interesting point regarding food and the propagation of the worms, as in any ecosystem there is a natural symbiotic relationship that tries to be accomplished between everything. The same goes for your tank, as certain nutrients in the tank increase so does the population of life, specifically in the sand bed and in your rocks, until the food source is exhausted, then the extra life that no longer has food, starves off, dies, and creates a food source for other life, which will repeat the process. One great example of this is the filter feeding circular worms you will see growing on the glass of your tank, as the nutrient levels increase, more grow, when the food is exhausted you will see less.

 

[elfdoctors]

Thanks for your post!
I checked out spaghetti worms. I've never heard of them before but based on the description that's got to be what I have. It sounds as if they'll take care of any extra food and sound harmless so I feel better about waiting for starfish. My wife thinks I'm crazy shining a flashlight into the tank at night but I have found some cool animals.
I'm just a little worried because on one of my purchases of live rock (I got some from 4 different sources so I would have a good diversity of life), I found a dead 8 inch smooth worm similar to a night crawler and was a little concerned that these could be a problem if any lived.

 

[oregonbud]

Originally posted by elfdoctors
My wife thinks I'm crazy shining a flashlight into the tank at night but I have found some cool animals.


LOL - I think if we did a poll on how many of our significant others thought we were nuts for staring into the tank in the middle of the night with a flashlight the general consensus would be that we should all be locked up in the loony bin
Just a tip, when looking into your tank at night, try covering the lens of your flashlight with a red piece of cellophane, or actually get a red flashlight (I got mine at a auto supply store for 5 bucks) The red spectrum is a bit harder for the nocturnal life to see, and doesn't seem to scare them off as much, which means you get to see that much more life.

 

[elfdoctors]

Thanks for the suggestion.
My wife will really think I'm nuts if I go and buy a flashlight just to stare into the fishtank at night!
The red light would be nice however because I might be able to show her something alive so she realizes I'm not hallucinating!
How about the so-called moonlights?

 

[oregonbud]

Dunno how the moonlights work, I haven't seen much good or bad regarding them so not sure.
Some people get the blue or red rope lights (like 10 bucks at hardware stores)and string them around their canopies to be used as a night light. Again, there are a few posts on here regarding the usage of the rope lights as a night light. May be a cheaper way to go then actually buying one of the moonlight fixtures.