Starting my cycling today on my 85 gallon tank

[pfcbizz]

Hello, it's been a longtime coming, well today I'm ready to start my cycling of my 85 gallon tank without live rock or sand and without starter fish, I plan to use raw shrimp to start my cycling process and my question is how many shrimp should I use ? to list what I have as far as equipment: I have a Jebo 180 protein skimmer, Jebo canister filter, Aqua Clear 300 HOB filter, 300w Heater, and 2 powerhead circulators, and I'm using purefied water, but my concern is the raw shrimp and how many should I use ?

 

[saxman]

This is what we used to cycle our 100 gal:

The NH3 alert tells us when the first spike happens. We use a mesh bag so we can remove the fish/shrimp chunks when we're ready.

 

[teresaq]

Why no sand or live rock? If you plan on adding it later, you are better off adding it now.

 

[mr. limpid]

I'm not being a smart A__, but what are you cycling if there is LR or Sand. You plan on running carbon in your HOB or is there bio material inside?

 

[pfcbizz]

Well there is a Article on this site on different ways to cycle and one of them is without using live rock or sand to start but establishing your own through the process of using raw shrimp, scallops, or fish and instead of being cruel and using starter fish or fish food I'm choosing to go this route that's all it might take longer but I'm in no rush, why kill or place a living being under trocherest living conditions when you don't have to ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Limpid http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432063
I'm not being a smart A__, but what are you cycling if there is LR or Sand. You plan on running carbon in your HOB or is there bio material inside?

 

[pfcbizz]

so I can buy one of those at petsmart or my LFS ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by saxman http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432027
This is what we used to cycle our 100 gal:

The NH3 alert tells us when the first spike happens. We use a mesh bag so we can remove the fish/shrimp chunks when we're ready.

 

[pfcbizz]

I'm sorry for sounding stupid when I asked about NH3 but I'm no scientist and new to saltwater aquariums, but I'm trying to gather all the useful information I can in the process of putting together my fishtank and making it a healthy place for the fish I plan to invest in.

 

[pfcbizz]

from what I've read all live sand or rock is, is sand or rock that has bacteria that has grown that in turn creates living creatures and that can be created instead of having to buy that expensive live rock and sand. now please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeresaQ http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432036
Why no sand or live rock? If you plan on adding it later, you are better off adding it now.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfcbizz http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432126
from what I've read all live sand or rock is, is sand or rock that has bacteria that has grown that in turn creates living creatures and that can be created instead of having to buy that expensive live rock and sand. now please correct me if I'm wrong.
Bacteria themselves are single celled organisms, and stay that way for eternity. The living creatures you are talking about (worms, turnicates, sponges, filter feeders, copepods, amphipods, and all manner of microscopic sea life) can not spring forth from bacteria in your aquarium. Given a couple billion years, maybe. But, I don't know if you are willing to wait that long.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Many people go bare bottom in a saltwater tank. It's not unheard of. You do not have to have sand in your tank if you don't want to. It just requires extra clean water, and an increase in water flow. Live rock, however, has the diversity of life that you can't get from bacteria alone. Live rock provides surfaces for bacteria to grow on, and so does porous materials from filtration equipment. Live rock gives fish a place to hide and feel safe. Although, you could use the alternative plastic and ceramic tiles.
Many people in the hobby want to simulate nature as closely as possible, therefore a naturally filtered aquarium with live rock and live sand is generally the most recommended and most standard way of setting up a saltwater aquarium.

 

[smartorl]

Your tank will establish beneficial bacteria. However, if you want all the organisms you must seed those in to your tank. As there will be some die off when you add live rock and / or live sand and could possibly jump start a mini cycle in a young system without a stable biological filter in place, it is easier to start out with the live rock / sand.
I never start with live sand, I use sand from my other tanks to seed the sand bed. The "live" sand you buy is really not live, but you can seed from an existing tank. You could even ask your lfs or reef club member for the seed sand.
You can use base rock which is not live and buy a few nice pieces of live rock that will seed your base rock and all of the rock will eventually become live rock.

 

[pfcbizz]

Lol, please excuse me I should be more spacific when I type but I figured Ya'll know and for that I apologize, I do have sand and baserock in my tank, but I didn't feel I wanted to buy live sand or rock, so I just asked how much raw shrimp I would need to use to cycle my tank that way, but I guess I'm not doing or saying something right ? but if it will prove the point I'm trying to ask about I'll find the link to the article I read and post it, all I want to know is what I ask, I've had mytank 6 months before I started my cycling and I've been reading and doing all types of research and I've heard many different opinions and got all types of different advise and I welcome it all, but understand I'm new to saltwater and I ask alot of questions, but I will find the link I'm talking bout.

 

[pfcbizz]

So here it is this the reason I'maskingabout howmanyraw shrimpI need to cycle my tank, Enjoy
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/386044/lets-talk-about-cycling

 

[smartorl]

No need for apologies, each of started in the same place, most of us doing a lot less research than you have done!
The cycle can be started by the die off on the rock or a faster way is using the shrimp.
Once the cycle is complete, you want and need all the little flora and fauna to provide the balance within your system. These little critters are a part of your clean up crew and a good source of food for your fish and corals later on.
The cycle and the live rock are on different plains, the only parallel is that the initial die off from the rock is what people used for many years to feed the cycle. The beneficial bacteria will be present and prosper after the cycle but they aren't the critters we are pointing out. The bacteria and the copepods, tiny brittles, the macros, etc are two seperate things. Bacteria won't create the life that live rock can provide.
While you can run a more sterile system, it will rely a lot more heavily on the mechanical filtration. For most within this hobby, the quest is to create the perfect little habitat that has that careful balance that makes it almost self sustaining.
Live rock is an important part of a stable biological system. Base rock can be seeded and eventually will become live rock but without adding something to seed it, it will remain base rock.
Many of my dwarf seahorse tanks were sterile systems for their safety. But, I had higher losses due to the systems inability to stabilize. A tiny fluxuation or overfeed was like a domino effect. I had to do weekly water changes to keep the water quality reasonable.
I hope this makes sense?

 

[smartorl]

Ok, what he is explaining is the cycle. Beyond the cycle you would need to consider the microrganisms needed to form a stable system.
There are times, like my dwarf tanks, when you would have a sterile tank, meaning that there is no live rock or sand. He was simply explaining how to use the shrimp to jump start the cycle.
You can use one shrimp or several everyone has their own choices and opinions.
As Teresa pointed out, if you were going to add live rock do it now because later after your tank is stocked and you add the rock you could actually start another cycle and you could have livestock losses potentially. If you are going to do it anyway, now is a good time. It will actually help to feed your cycle as well.
Unless there is a reason specically why you choose not to do live rock in any form, it is best for your system to add some and to later seed your sand bed with a few cups of live sand. Many of us reseed our sand yearly to keep the bed viable.

 

[pfcbizz]

So they have small 15lb bags of live sand that is dry so if I add one of them and I piece of live rock those will seed my sand and base rock ? and make them become live, ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartorl http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432157
No need for apologies, each of started in the same place, most of us doing a lot less research than you have done!
The cycle can be started by the die off on the rock or a faster way is using the shrimp.
Once the cycle is complete, you want and need all the little flora and fauna to provide the balance within your system. These little critters are a part of your clean up crew and a good source of food for your fish and corals later on.
The cycle and the live rock are on different plains, the only parallel is that the initial die off from the rock is what people used for many years to feed the cycle. The beneficial bacteria will be present and prosper after the cycle but they aren't the critters we are pointing out. The bacteria and the copepods, tiny brittles, the macros, etc are two seperate things. Bacteria won't create the life that live rock can provide.
While you can run a more sterile system, it will rely a lot more heavily on the mechanical filtration. For most within this hobby, the quest is to create the perfect little habitat that has that careful balance that makes it almost self sustaining.
Live rock is an important part of a stable biological system. Base rock can be seeded and eventually will become live rock but without adding something to seed it, it will remain base rock.
Many of my dwarf seahorse tanks were sterile systems for their safety. But, I had higher losses due to the systems inability to stabilize. A tiny fluxuation or overfeed was like a domino effect. I had to do weekly water changes to keep the water quality reasonable.
I hope this makes sense?

 

[pfcbizz]

I get what your saying that the shrimp is just to start the cycle but the live sand and rock is needed to maintain the proper stability in the tank ? Ok I understand now no offense but some people when they explain I for some reason don'r understand or follow becuz they get really technical and I am new and learning and Lol, I guess a little slow.

 

[smartorl]

We all started somewhere! Sometimes it difficult explaining because people get offended. If someone can learn from my failures and lessons learned the hard way, its worthwhile.
The bags of "live sand" are more of a marketing ploy. It really isn't live. You can seed the bed with a few cups of sand from a friend.
If you haven't already, check for local reef clubs. They can usually steer you in the right direction and most love to see a fellow hobbyist succeed.
No questions are dumb questions. We are all from different countries, backgrounds, experience levels, and some
have different primary languages. It's easy to be confused.

 

[pfcbizz]

Thank you, when you talk about a reef club how would I find one of them ? and No I haveno friends with tanks I've only lived in Arizona 4 yrs and really only spend time with my family so I dont have any friend like talking bout, and you think the LFS would give me a cup of live sand ? but it's a possibilty they'll charge me ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartorl http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432211
We all started somewhere! Sometimes it difficult explaining because people get offended. If someone can learn from my failures and lessons learned the hard way, its worthwhile.
The bags of "live sand" are more of a marketing ploy. It really isn't live. You can seed the bed with a few cups of sand from a friend.
If you haven't already, check for local reef clubs. They can usually steer you in the right direction and most love to see a fellow hobbyist succeed.
No questions are dumb questions. We are all from different countries, backgrounds, experience levels, and some
have different primary languages. It's easy to be confused.

 

[pfcbizz]

Plus I'm doing a fish only tank not a reef and I'm using Caribsea Aragamax select Aragonite sand in my tank
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfcbizz http:///t/388846/starting-my-cycling-today-on-my-85-gallon-tank#post_3432214
Thank you, when you talk about a reef club how would I find one of them ? and No I haveno friends with tanks I've only lived in Arizona 4 yrs and really only spend time with my family so I dont have any friend like talking bout, and you think the LFS would give me a cup of live sand ? but it's a possibilty they'll charge me ?