State of the Union.

[darthtang aw]

Ok, I am going to try to touch on most everything he talked about.
First and foremost. He touched on Vet programs. This is my number one concern with any future president. I feel the government owes these people MORE than the rest of us as their decision to join the military affects them and their families when Government enacts policies. We can sit here and support the war or oppose it, but at the end of the day any war we are engaged in doesn't truly affect our lives directly. Them it does so they should be well taken care of. Vet benefits have almost doubled (funding and support) under his administration. He wants to increase that more and also create new programs for those coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan. This can only be seen as a good thing.
Spending, he will cut programs abused or not needed anymore and balance the budget to give us a surplus in 2010 (or 12) if it is stuck with. Not bad since this is the main gripe now.
aid to africa. He will continue here which is good, but he plans to fund in a way that will set up the region to grow and produce their own food and stabilize themselves. A good thing as it will eventually get the rest of the world to stop taking care of these types of countries.
Immigration. He has asked congress to put together plans, and he will do the same and they can sit down and come up with what will work the best for the country. (the one point I am skeptical of).
Iraq, 20,000 troops will be brought home. More will follow as the MILITARY LEADERSHIP feels they can afford it. NOT CONGRESS OR THE PRESIDENT, but the military. As it should be.
economy, congress was asked to come up with a plan for the

[hr]
issue without bailing anyone out. Basically forcing the

[hr]
companies to restructure loans so they are affordable for those lended to. Also a rebate check for over 1 million families in tax relief (which now the senate is discussing extending enmployment benefits and food stamp programs as well.
Education...Under no child left behind, math and English scores have come up across the board...Fewer High school drop outs as well. Also he wishes to expand a college scholarship/grant program for poor kids who don't have the monetary means for college but have the scores and drive. To help strengthen our youth education.
The number 2 thing I liked after the veterans issues was the ear mark and pork bills. He last year asked congress to reduce their pork/ear marks by 50%. They didn't. He has now said he will automatically veto these bills if the senate chooses to ad ear marks to them.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by Darknes
The american consumer brought it on themselves. Businesses do what they have to do to stay competitive and lower their prices for the consumer. This isn't the 19th century anymore, we're entering a world economy. It might hurt americans now, but I think in the long run it's going to be better for the world.
i'd disagree it's the american consumer. its the minimum wages, taxes, lawsuits, insurance, and huge bonuses that ceo's get that is causing american product to go up.
look at scrap metal. we're exporting most of our scrap metal to Europe and china. because their money is worth more, they are buying more and getting deals on our scrap metal, making it tougher and tougher for our american companies to buy it. Tyler Pipe and Charlotte Pipe foundries are facing a cast iron shortage because they cannot get scrap metal at a decent price to make the castiron pipe. this is raising the price on their product, which in turn is going to force people to pay more for their business, homes, water lines, etc.
what are europe and china doing? they are making castiron boilers, fittings, etc and making a ton more money on these items because they are getting our metal so cheap (in their eyes), getting their labor so cheap, sending the product to their companies in canada at lower tariffs than the states charge, then have their companies in canada send it to USA under nafta.
look in your produce sections. its cheaper for australia, brazil, chile, etc to send us their food than it is to get our own farmers to make it for us. why? cause our own farmers aren't given the money that the states sends out to other country's farmers.
if we're going to give our money to a country, give it back to the states IMO.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by renogaw
i'd disagree it's the american consumer. its the minimum wages, taxes, lawsuits, insurance, and huge bonuses that ceo's get that is causing american product to go up.
look at scrap metal. we're exporting most of our scrap metal to Europe and china. because their money is worth more, they are buying more and getting deals on our scrap metal, making it tougher and tougher for our american companies to buy it. Tyler Pipe and Charlotte Pipe foundries are facing a cast iron shortage because they cannot get scrap metal at a decent price to make the castiron pipe. this is raising the price on their product, which in turn is going to force people to pay more for their business, homes, water lines, etc.
what are europe and china doing? they are making castiron boilers, fittings, etc and making a ton more money on these items because they are getting our metal so cheap (in their eyes), getting their labor so cheap, sending the product to their companies in canada at lower tariffs than the states charge, then have their companies in canada send it to USA under nafta.
look in your produce sections. its cheaper for australia, brazil, chile, etc to send us their food than it is to get our own farmers to make it for us. why? cause our own farmers aren't given the money that the states sends out to other country's farmers.
if we're going to give our money to a country, give it back to the states IMO.
There are several problems with this statement. First off, farming is one of the most heavily subsidized sectors of the American Economy. In fact farmers many times are paid to not plant fields to help prop up the ag prices.
Second, assuming your stated scrap example is true, explain to me why the American company can't buy this scrap steal at world prices? If not pay less because of the lower costs of not shipping scrap overseas.
As for foriegn aid, I'm not a big fan of it either. I'd rather keep by own money then government spending it somewear else anyway.

 

[renogaw]

scrap is going through the roof because of all the countries, such as china and even germany, buying it at american dollar prices, with euro dollars. from what i've been told, they can buy it cheaper here than they can buy it in their own countries because their money (especially the euro) is worth so much more than ours, and the scrap yards make out like bandits.
i'm assuming you want proof?
1/2 black malleable 90 degree elbow
import from china, my cost (wholesale) is $.39
american fittings (Ward or Grinnell), my cost is $.59
that's almost 35% cheaper on one of the smallest fittings.
Black steel pipe:
American steel, 1/2 per 100': 505.48
import steel 1/2" per 100': 331.97
boilers (comparing triple pass boilers):
american oil, 112k btus with a beckett burner: 1505
german oil, 104k btu's (close enough for 99% applications) with a RIELLO (much better burner) is 1466.
Buderus is Germany's largest importer of scrap metal, and they get 90% from the states. Tell me how they can get all of our scrap metal, at what american manufacturers consider insane high price, ship it to germany, melt it down, cast it, ship it to Canada, and then to USA and be cheaper than american boilers?
as for the subsidising...
I'd like you to talk to all the farmers up near me who are all selling their land because they do not get any money from the govt, and cannot sell their CORN!!! because mexico is cheaper (SO much that mexico's largest export, tequila, has been replaced by corn)

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by renogaw
...
as for the subsidising...
I'd like you to talk to all the farmers up near me who are all selling their land because they do not get any money from the govt, and cannot sell their CORN!!! because mexico is cheaper (SO much that mexico's largest export, tequila, has been replaced by corn)
They need to shop around...
I can tell you first hand the cost of corn is increasing, not decreasing. The cost of deer corn and feed is up 20% alone.

 

[1journeyman]

Also:
"Work is underway to add another 6.2 billion gallons to the annual capacity of the U.S. ethanol sector. To meet the sector’s growing demand for corn, some U.S. corn is likely to be diverted from exports. In the future, corn may cease to be the main feedstock for U.S. ethanol production if cellulosic biomass is successfully developed as an alternative."...

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by renogaw
scrap is going through the roof because of all the countries, such as china and even germany, buying it at american dollar prices, with euro dollars. from what i've been told, they can buy it cheaper here than they can buy it in their own countries because their money (especially the euro) is worth so much more than ours, and the scrap yards make out like bandits.
Buderus is Germany's largest importer of scrap metal, and they get 90% from the states. Tell me how they can get all of our scrap metal, at what american manufacturers consider insane high price, ship it to germany, melt it down, cast it, ship it to Canada, and then to USA and be cheaper than american boilers?
as for the subsidising...
I'd like you to talk to all the farmers up near me who are all selling their land because they do not get any money from the govt, and cannot sell their CORN!!! because mexico is cheaper (SO much that mexico's largest export, tequila, has been replaced by corn)
You're telling me that these farmers couldn't turn a profit with the price of corn doubling in the last 4 years.

Something isn't adding up.
You complained about a shortage of domestic scrap because they were selling it overseas.
Now you say correctly that the exchange rate plays a factor in the favorable pricing overseas for scrap.
But likewise, these domestic metal producers can also ship their products overseas for a more favorable price, due to this same exchange rate.
the
Originally Posted by renogaw
Tyler Pipe and Charlotte Pipe foundries are facing a cast iron shortage because they cannot get scrap metal at a decent price to make the castiron pipe. this is raising the price on their product, which in turn is going to force people to pay more for their business, homes, water lines, etc.
isn't a shortage, they just refuse to buy it. I don't see them or consumer's pony's up the extra funds to buy higher priced american products. But that is what you get when you have government getting in the way of private companies telling them how to run their business. You get artificially factors influencing pricing.

 

[stdreb27]

Likewise, farming is still one of the most subsidised sector of the US economy. I don't know about your one isolated example. But what are they farming corn for in CT anyway. I'd bet the taxes and regulations SHORT growing season would put them out of business anyway.

 

[mike22cha]

Originally Posted by renogaw
why should we care though? honestly, if they start making a living, that means they are competing with our own farmers, making it so THEY can't make a living...with enough work going offshore, why should we fund farmers out of the country?
ok, i realize that during the winter in the states, it's summer down south, but with all their cheap labor, they should have no issues making a living by themselves without us giving them money. stop taking my money to give it to someone else outside the country (well, inside the country too, but that's a different issue)
Well here's another way to look at it. We're obviously not sending this money to enemy countries. We're sending them to allied countries. The more stable the country is, less chance we have to go in and defend it. Plus a more stable and stronger ally is always beneficial.

 

[reefraff]

There are areas where it just isn't suited for growing crops. No reason why we should spend ten time the amount to try to grow the food there when we can just grow it here. If those countries begin to develop to the point they can afford to spend the money to grow their own crop then they wont need out money anymore will they

 

[mike22cha]

Originally Posted by reefraff
There are areas where it just isn't suited for growing crops. No reason why we should spend ten time the amount to try to grow the food there when we can just grow it here. If those countries begin to develop to the point they can afford to spend the money to grow their own crop then they wont need out money anymore will they

Too bad their government is too curropt to get the money to where it needs to be.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by MIKE22cha
Too bad their government is too curropt to get the money to where it needs to be.
who is they? I never saw a country listed....

 

[mike22cha]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
who is they? I never saw a country listed....
That's true. But I think that most of our forgein aid is aimed at poverished countries in Africa, though there are poverished countries everywhere. Most of the time the reason they are in poverty is because of political curroption.

 

[darthtang aw]

Not entirely true, that does play a factor, but for the most part it is also education and know how. Give a man a fish you feed him a day. Teach him to fish and he feeds himself......

 

[mike22cha]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Not entirely true, that does play a factor, but for the most part it is also education and know how. Give a man a fish you feed him a day. Teach him to fish and he feeds himself......
That's what I like to see at a website my dad uses for charity, it's called ADRA (Adventist Disaster Relief Agency I think, anyways it's one of the most effecient organizations at getting the most money of what you donated to use opposed to paying the middle man), gift options that include giving them training so they can gain a tool and support themselves.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
You're telling me that these farmers couldn't turn a profit with the price of corn doubling in the last 4 years.

Something isn't adding up.
You complained about a shortage of domestic scrap because they were selling it overseas.
Now you say correctly that the exchange rate plays a factor in the favorable pricing overseas for scrap.
But likewise, these domestic metal producers can also ship their products overseas for a more favorable price, due to this same exchange rate.
the isn't a shortage, they just refuse to buy it. I don't see them or consumer's pony's up the extra funds to buy higher priced american products. But that is what you get when you have government getting in the way of private companies telling them how to run their business. You get artificially factors influencing pricing.

as for boilers, there's no american boiler that would be installed outside of the usa/canada. they are too inefficient. germany requires emmisions testing on their chimneys. our american boilers are working "great" if they are at 86% efficient, where german/italian are working "poor" at 93%.
as for the pipe manufacturers, they are being forced to pay the added cost, and are going to pass it on to consumers. they have the market cornered though, because there is no drainage cast iron import company that is allowed to sell their product (at least not in MA or CT) because it shatters too easily.
the problem is, who foots this increase? the mfg? nope, they don't honor price quotes. the builders? nope, they have a contract with the installer. so, the mfg price goes up, the sell price to the builder doesn't, and the wholesaler/plumber have to beat each other up price wise, and sometimes it causes plumbers to go out of business, or doesnt pay their bills so the wholesaler gets screwed out of the money.
thats what strengthening our competitors in the world market does.

 

[scubadoo]

Overall excellent job.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by renogaw
the problem is, who foots this increase? the mfg? nope, they don't honor price quotes. the builders? nope, they have a contract with the installer. so, the mfg price goes up, the sell price to the builder doesn't, and the wholesaler/plumber have to beat each other up price wise, and sometimes it causes plumbers to go out of business, or doesnt pay their bills so the wholesaler gets screwed out of the money.
thats what strengthening our competitors in the world market does.
oh you'll get no argument for me there, hence me saying "artificially influencing price"
And don't get me started on the global warming hoax for artificially influencing price.
Or union workers and price. I was watching a frontline show on Wally world, and how bad it was. They were interviewing some uneducated guy who lost his $70,000 a year job assembling TVs. He moaned and groaned, I don't know what I'm going to do, I don't know what my kids will grow up and to.
When the moron, and his union, priced himself right out of a job, and god forbid your kids go to college and learn a different trade.

 

[nyyankeees]

Originally Posted by renogaw
as for the subsidising...
I'd like you to talk to all the farmers up near me who are all selling their land because they do not get any money from the govt, and cannot sell their CORN!!! because mexico is cheaper (SO much that mexico's largest export, tequila, has been replaced by corn)
Speaking of farmers...anyone know what's going on with Bill Gates, Bono(of U2) and some kind of funding or something for farmers? I saw something about it for a few seconds while channel surfing the other night. Jus curious