Stray voltage??????????
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lobstergrabber
Member
don't think that is good. I had some in mine at one time and found it to be salt creep carrying the current from some broken shielding on a wire. You must have a short somewhere.
Rich
Rich
scsinet
Active Member
This is too much. Anything above 1 volt is unacceptable. It's coming from somewhere. Maybe your halides are at fault. Assume that nothing "couldn't be the problem."
You won't feel a shock in the water from anything less than 50 volts, but it's an incredibly dangerous situation. You are doing the right thing by testing proactively, be glad you found it before it got worse.
If you are reading a voltage, you are probably testing correctly, but just for giggles, explain how you are testing so we can be sure.
If the voltage partially dropped, you have multiple failed pieces of equipment. If the voltage drops at all when something is unplugged, then that piece of equipment's electrical seal integrity has been compromised and it must be replaced. I can't stress this enough: do not mess around. Replace it.
You won't feel a shock in the water from anything less than 50 volts, but it's an incredibly dangerous situation. You are doing the right thing by testing proactively, be glad you found it before it got worse.
If you are reading a voltage, you are probably testing correctly, but just for giggles, explain how you are testing so we can be sure.
If the voltage partially dropped, you have multiple failed pieces of equipment. If the voltage drops at all when something is unplugged, then that piece of equipment's electrical seal integrity has been compromised and it must be replaced. I can't stress this enough: do not mess around. Replace it.
scsinet
Active Member
You are testing correctly.
No don't do that (the grounding probe thing). Grounding probes cause more danger than they solve unless they are paird with a GFI. GFIs are designed to trip when a stray voltage condition is found, and they use a grounding probe as part of their detection method.
Therefore, if you use a grounding probe with a GFI, you'll end up with it tripping and you'll have no power at all.
If you use a grounding probe with no GFI, you end up closing the circuit in the tank which can hurt you and your fish by merely reaching in.
If you can't buy all the equipment at once, then find the devices that are causing the biggest voltage spike (which drops the voltage the most when you unplug it). Make replacing that equipment your priority.
BTW, don't forget any equipment down in your sump. The sump is electrically connected to the tank through the water running in your pipes.
No don't do that (the grounding probe thing). Grounding probes cause more danger than they solve unless they are paird with a GFI. GFIs are designed to trip when a stray voltage condition is found, and they use a grounding probe as part of their detection method.
Therefore, if you use a grounding probe with a GFI, you'll end up with it tripping and you'll have no power at all.
If you use a grounding probe with no GFI, you end up closing the circuit in the tank which can hurt you and your fish by merely reaching in.
If you can't buy all the equipment at once, then find the devices that are causing the biggest voltage spike (which drops the voltage the most when you unplug it). Make replacing that equipment your priority.
BTW, don't forget any equipment down in your sump. The sump is electrically connected to the tank through the water running in your pipes.
reefnut
Active Member
I'd agree... kind of. A grounding probe should not be used to solve such an extream voltage problem but after you get the problem fixed you can add one... and a GFCI should also be added for the tank's and your protection... but even w/o a GFCI I'd still add a grounding probe.
scsinet
Active Member
Originally Posted by ReefNut
I'd agree... kind of. A grounding probe should not be used to solve such an extream voltage problem but after you get the problem fixed you can add one... and a GFCI should also be added for the tank's and your protection... but even w/o a GFCI I'd still add a grounding probe.
Yeah sorry, should have been clearer.... I kinda sounded like he should never buy a grounding probe. You're right, he should get one, but I don't think he should get one until after he solves this problem. Doing so right now only makes the situation worse.
I do stand by my contention that a grounding probe should never be used without a GFI.
I'd agree... kind of. A grounding probe should not be used to solve such an extream voltage problem but after you get the problem fixed you can add one... and a GFCI should also be added for the tank's and your protection... but even w/o a GFCI I'd still add a grounding probe.
Yeah sorry, should have been clearer.... I kinda sounded like he should never buy a grounding probe. You're right, he should get one, but I don't think he should get one until after he solves this problem. Doing so right now only makes the situation worse.
I do stand by my contention that a grounding probe should never be used without a GFI.
bojik
Member
First check your location of purchase for the devices to check up on their return policy. If they are still covered by that exchange them. If you cannot exchange them at the location you bought them, call the company that built them and ask questions and tell them your problem. That might save you some money in replacements. If it is just a damaged cord (or something else)on the devices and they are under warranty the company that built them might fix/replace them at no/little cost. Even if they are not see what the cost would be to have them replace the cord (if problem).
If not sometimes it can just be a damaged power cord/where it connects internaly on the device. Which on some devices (if you know what you are doing) can be replaced and/or epoxy insulated at the conections. Not sure if that is advisable in your situation. Might be a possible temporaty fix for one or two devices.
Keep in mind this is just a suggestion. Repalcement is more than likely the best bet for them.
If not sometimes it can just be a damaged power cord/where it connects internaly on the device. Which on some devices (if you know what you are doing) can be replaced and/or epoxy insulated at the conections. Not sure if that is advisable in your situation. Might be a possible temporaty fix for one or two devices.
Keep in mind this is just a suggestion. Repalcement is more than likely the best bet for them.
scsinet
Active Member
Something just doesn't seem right... I can't believe that more than 2 pieces of equipment are causing the problem... that's just too coincidental. Furthermore, voltage doesn't have a cumulative effect. For example, if two pieces of equipment are leaking 3 volts into the water, you'd have 3 volts, not six. I am wondering if your voltage is being induced by your equipment in other ways (electro-magnetic fields, etc).
Here is what I'd do:
First, call the manufacturer of the devices. See what their technical department has to say. If the product is under warranty, it's highly unlikely that they'll do anything but replace it. Most manufacturers won't mess around with a safety issue. Most aquarium stuff has a better than 90 day warranty. Even cheap Hagen Powerheads are warranted for a year.
Second, if you don't get anywhere, maybe you should add a grounding probe WITH a GFI. I am wondering if your voltage might be induced by magnetics in the motors or something. This chance is incredibly slim, but it's theoretically possible. If that's the case, you may have no problem here. Digital meters measure volts with no real regard to current, and both current and voltage are needed to cause a shock hazard. The grounding probe MAY solve your problem. However, since you know that a voltage exists DO NOT try this without a GFI. Just buy a plug in GFI, and connect all your tank equipment to it. Verify your connections by pressing "TEST" on the GFI and make sure your whole tank shuts down. Add your grounding probe and make sure the ground wire is secured to a known ground. If the GFI holds, I'd leave things as is. GFIs will pass a fault current (stray voltage) until it reaches an unsafe level, so if the GFI doesn't trip, you should not be in any danger.
You may want to purchase two GFIs and divide your equipment across them, so one tripping won't shut off your whole tank.
Here is what I'd do:
First, call the manufacturer of the devices. See what their technical department has to say. If the product is under warranty, it's highly unlikely that they'll do anything but replace it. Most manufacturers won't mess around with a safety issue. Most aquarium stuff has a better than 90 day warranty. Even cheap Hagen Powerheads are warranted for a year.
Second, if you don't get anywhere, maybe you should add a grounding probe WITH a GFI. I am wondering if your voltage might be induced by magnetics in the motors or something. This chance is incredibly slim, but it's theoretically possible. If that's the case, you may have no problem here. Digital meters measure volts with no real regard to current, and both current and voltage are needed to cause a shock hazard. The grounding probe MAY solve your problem. However, since you know that a voltage exists DO NOT try this without a GFI. Just buy a plug in GFI, and connect all your tank equipment to it. Verify your connections by pressing "TEST" on the GFI and make sure your whole tank shuts down. Add your grounding probe and make sure the ground wire is secured to a known ground. If the GFI holds, I'd leave things as is. GFIs will pass a fault current (stray voltage) until it reaches an unsafe level, so if the GFI doesn't trip, you should not be in any danger.
You may want to purchase two GFIs and divide your equipment across them, so one tripping won't shut off your whole tank.
bojik
Member
Though i've had hagens last for years and years....Cheap but reliable 
at least IME.
If you have a multimeter you can test the current. And the upgrade in volts could be caused ny by the equipment creating a sequential circtuit of sorts
like with electronics thus upping the voltage. Much the same as putting mutliple batteries end to end to get a higher voltage. Not sure how possible that is...
With the two GFCI's it might be prudent to have a circulation pump on each incase one trips the other still keeps water moving for oxygen and such if your away for a while when it happens.
at least IME.If you have a multimeter you can test the current. And the upgrade in volts could be caused ny by the equipment creating a sequential circtuit of sorts
With the two GFCI's it might be prudent to have a circulation pump on each incase one trips the other still keeps water moving for oxygen and such if your away for a while when it happens.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
I dont believe you need to replace ANYTHING. IMO what you are seeing there are eddy currents caused by the electromagnetic field surounding you equipment. My DT tests exactly the same as your's. You have alot of electrical equpment in you'r water, around you're water and moving water. Here's an idea, test with an ohm meter. If there are any shorts in youre equipment it will show up. Test exactly as you did with the voltage but use the ohms feature (if you'rs has it). It should (and will) show it as open.!
I dont believe you have a problem.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
This is what I just did to prove the point. You can do the same and it will confirm what I have said.
You show 20 volts on the meter right?
So that should be enough voltage to light say a 12 volt light bulb right? It should be more than enough. Get a 12 volt bulb from wally world, like an automobile taillight bulb. Take some wire and some electrical tape. Strip back enough wire to wrap around the metal base of the bulb. Wrap it around it and tape it on. Then strip another wire and double it up a few times so you can get it to contact the lead end on the light bulb. If you got a bulb wich has two contacts on the base just use one. Be sure when you tape this one on its making contact and not touching the metal case. Noe strip back a couple inches of the other ends of the wires. Put one in you DT water(just like the probe) the other end VERY CAREFully put in the grounded part of you're receptacle. DONT PUT IT IN THE TWO SLOTTED OPENINGS only the half circled ground opening. If you have anything there to worry about the voltage will be enough to light the bulb. But it wont. These are EDDY currents. They are IMO normal. They have no <punch> to them.
You show 20 volts on the meter right?
So that should be enough voltage to light say a 12 volt light bulb right? It should be more than enough. Get a 12 volt bulb from wally world, like an automobile taillight bulb. Take some wire and some electrical tape. Strip back enough wire to wrap around the metal base of the bulb. Wrap it around it and tape it on. Then strip another wire and double it up a few times so you can get it to contact the lead end on the light bulb. If you got a bulb wich has two contacts on the base just use one. Be sure when you tape this one on its making contact and not touching the metal case. Noe strip back a couple inches of the other ends of the wires. Put one in you DT water(just like the probe) the other end VERY CAREFully put in the grounded part of you're receptacle. DONT PUT IT IN THE TWO SLOTTED OPENINGS only the half circled ground opening. If you have anything there to worry about the voltage will be enough to light the bulb. But it wont. These are EDDY currents. They are IMO normal. They have no <punch> to them.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
You wouldn't feel it. If it were there.
wattsupdoc
Active Member
Originally Posted by SaltFan
24volts? He wouldn't feel it, if it were truly 24volts?? What? LOL, dude when was the last time you grabbed hold of 24volts? He would feel it if it were LIVE 24 VOLTS Not fantom ohms.
OK here we go..... Man I swear. I have 2 deep cycle batteries on my pontoon boat. They are connected in series and provide power to my 24 volt trolling motor. Just yesterday I had both lines to it in my hand as I was relocatng the wiring. No it wasnt disconnected, no I did not feel a thing. It it imposible to feel that with yiou're hand. Now on you're tongue you can feel it because the tounge is full of taste buds and satuarted with moiture. You can feel 9 volts with you're tongue. You may feel a slight tingle with 24 volts in water but not a jolt.
24volts? He wouldn't feel it, if it were truly 24volts?? What? LOL, dude when was the last time you grabbed hold of 24volts? He would feel it if it were LIVE 24 VOLTS Not fantom ohms.
OK here we go..... Man I swear. I have 2 deep cycle batteries on my pontoon boat. They are connected in series and provide power to my 24 volt trolling motor. Just yesterday I had both lines to it in my hand as I was relocatng the wiring. No it wasnt disconnected, no I did not feel a thing. It it imposible to feel that with yiou're hand. Now on you're tongue you can feel it because the tounge is full of taste buds and satuarted with moiture. You can feel 9 volts with you're tongue. You may feel a slight tingle with 24 volts in water but not a jolt.