Stray voltage??????????

[moneyman]

PHD for you. People have been falsely accusing stray voltage to equipment malfunction for ages. Listen to wattsupdoc (OMG, his name even exemplify electricity).
Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
I dont believe you need to replace ANYTHING. IMO what you are seeing there are eddy currents caused by the electromagnetic field surounding you equipment. My DT tests exactly the same as your's. You have alot of electrical equpment in you'r water, around you're water and moving water. Here's an idea, test with an ohm meter. If there are any shorts in youre equipment it will show up. Test exactly as you did with the voltage but use the ohms feature (if you'rs has it). It should (and will) show it as open.!

I dont believe you have a problem.

 

[saltfan]

Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
OK here we go..... Man I swear. I have 2 deep cycle batteries on my pontoon boat. They are connected in series and provide power to my 24 volt trolling motor. Just yesterday I had both lines to it in my hand as I was relocatng the wiring. No it wasnt disconnected, no I did not feel a thing. It it imposible to feel that with yiou're hand. Now on you're tongue you can feel it because the tounge is full of taste buds and satuarted with moiture. You can feel 9 volts with you're tongue. You may feel a slight tingle with 24 volts in water but not a jolt.

If you say so.......I'm done here.

 

[drewsta]

I think this is a bad idea in every sence of the word why would you stick metal testers and metal light bulbs in your water??????? Any trace elements of metal or copper or brass is harmful?? Am I just crazy or can I throw in any metal object in my tank? :notsure:

 

[djm]

Originally Posted by wattsupdoc
You wouldn't feel it. If it were there.
That is not 100% accurate. But it was a good answer to anyone that expects stray voltage to knock them on their butt the second they touch an aquarium with an issue. When in doubt, err on the side of caution- ALWAYS.
Here is what I KNOW from experience. The skin around my figertips tends to stay dry and cracked from the chemicals that I am exposed to at work. I KNOW when I have stray voltage because I feel a distinct sting in my fingertips just by touching the water anywhere in my tank or sump. True- MOST people won't feel a thing. Just watch how carefully you word inclusive or exclusive statements.
The first time I experienced it, it was easy to rule out that maybe just the saltwater was stinging my fingertips by just removing a cup of tank water and putting my fingers in it. I felt nothing from the water and it was easy to isolate the source just by observation. I had a powerhead with a pretty large crack in it that was causing the stray voltage. Stray voltage IS damn near undetectable without testing for it. If all of your tank's inhabitants all seem unhappy without any other changes in your maintenance routine, it would be a good time to test for stray voltage.
Fact- Stray voltage will most likely not harm you UNLESS you unwittingly come directly into contact with the source. Your livestock is a different story. Stray voltage will stress them to death.
GFCI's and grounding probes- GFCI's won't trip for a voltage leak and a grounding probe may just divert enough energy away to prevent you from being killed. (I'll leave it to wattsupdoc or anyone with an electrical background to elaborate on that.)
My last encounter with a voltage leak was my most serious (and most potentially lethal) of them all. Here is another story that I will share so that newbies don't have to experience big mistakes for themselves.- Years ago, I used to add my top-off water directly into my overflow box. The theory in my head was that the top-off water would have maximum exposure time to mix with the water already in my tank before the top-off reached it's final destination. I have an Oceanic sump and the water heaters are kept in a chamber that is also the first place the overflow water goes to in the sump. Slightly cooler water flowing on heaters = Bad news. No brainer, right? I completely overlooked the obvious on this one.
I felt that familiar sting one day as I reached my hand into my sump to remove my carbon bag for replacement. I KNEW I had a problem and the only option was to pull plugs one at a time until it was isolated. It turns out that one of my heaters had exploded in the heater box- most likely caused by the way I was adding top-off water. I use two heaters in my heater box for redundancy, my temp never fluctuated even a single degree. Anyone that uses an Oceanic reef sump knows that it isn't exactly easy to access the heater box- that is probably a good thing when a heater breaks. What I found after I shut the power off, knowing which cord stopped my fingers from stinging, was a mess in my heater box. The glass on one of my heaters was completely gone other than shards of glass that extended about an inch and a half from the top of the unit. The heating elements were still active even though they weren't contained any more. Had I touched it before I removed the power source, a burn would have been the best possible outcome. Death or permanent injury would have been the worst case scenario.

 

[djm]

To those that asked about sticking metal objects in their aquariums- your tank's inhabitants have to be exposed to a HUGE and/or continuous source of metal for them to be unhappy. Metal test probes will not effect your creatures in any way. There is simply not enough contact time to do any harm.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by djm
To those that asked about sticking metal objects in their aquariums- your tank's inhabitants have to be exposed to a HUGE and/or continuous source of metal for them to be unhappy. Metal test probes will not effect your creatures in any way. There is simply not enough contact time to do any harm.

 

[scsinet]

Guys from reading the last 12 hours worth of posts including my last one, I think we are all at the same conclusion here, and that's that he doesn't have a problem. I know that wattsup, saltfan, and I LOVE to argue with each other, but rather than join in, I'll suggest that we all save our breaths and just solve this problem.

Sebae, I think we've all basically come to the same end here, you've got "voltage," but it's not being caused by your equipment, but rather a side effect of putting a bunch equipment that is magnetic based (motors for one) and running off of AC close together in a big tank of conductive water. Long story short and without a 15 minute lecture, it can give you false readings.

I stick by my last suggestion.. put the safety equipment in place (Ground probe and GFI) if you are uncomfortable with your situation. The GFI won't trip unless you have a safety issue. Test it periodically to make sure it works, and just sit pretty. It'll trip if anything poses a real concern or develops an issue in the future.
BTW, no knock on Hagen. I use em too! :joy:

 

[sebae09]

thanks everyone. I will go get that probe and GFI today

 

[bojik]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
BTW, no knock on Hagen. I use em too! :joy:
My lfs has a pair of 802's (I think thats the number. 80?

) he's just kept them clean and they have been going 11+ years (where in the tank before he purchased the store) with no real noticiable decline in power.

 

[djm]

Just for giggles, I tested my tank with a voltmeter. It fluctuates around .025V and never even came close to .03V.
On the other hand- when one of my heaters broke, it DID trip out the GFCI. Everyone needs to be aware that if your GFCI trips- you have a problem. Even if your GFCI resets when you press the button, something isn't right in your system that could potentially kill you. You could die if you ignore it and I can't stress that point enough!
I apologize if I am getting away from the initial question, SCSInet, but I am still going to make some safety points.
GFCI's and grounding probes are a MUST in any aquarium.
IF you reset your GFCI thinking that it tripped by accident, you are wrong over 99% of the time. Don't go near your tank after a successful reset for at least 24 hours if you think your GFCI tripped falsely. Then you still need to troubleshoot to figure out WHY your GFCI tripped before you stick your hand in it.
(Just for example) It is possible to have a torn power cord or a cracked housing on a powerhead connected to your wave maker. That particular powerhead may likely be out of cycle when you reset your GFCI because the wavemaker will only provide electricity to it when it is that powerheads turn in the cycle. A GFCI won't trip again until the faulty powerhead is given electricity by the timer on the wave maker. YOU can ground a fault as quickly as a GFCI can. The only difference is that a GFCI is easier to restart than your heart is. Don't take a risk if you aren't fully comfortable with the potential outcome.
The same idea works for heaters. A cracked glass cover on a heater will most likely trip a GFCI. You could still reset the GFCI and be fine- UNTIL the heater's thermostat kicks in because it is still working just fine.
ZAAAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!
These are just possibilities that COULD happen.
Your mileage may vary, so don't take my word on it. I am only wrong 98% of the time. :thinking:

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by djm
I apologize if I am getting away from the initial question, SCSInet, but I am still going to make some safety points.
Huh? I didn't ask a question.

 

[djm]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
Huh? I didn't ask a question.
I realize that. But you did mention that everyone needs to save their breath and I wasn't comfortable leaving the thread as it stood without at least TRYING to drive home some major safety points that most newbies overlook.
I apologize if I made it sound like I was getting in your face.