stressing out over sump

ricky1066

ricky1066

Member
Ok something so simple is stressing me out big time.
Since buying the sump tank I have been told to take out the bio balls I did cut the top off the tank buoght some chaeto and a sock put it in.
I have a hob overflow and a hose hooked on straight down to my sock .the pump is barely on so the water is seeping out . If I make it any higher the tank empties out really quick and I get that gargling noise.
I tried adding more water to the tank to the point where it was overflowing aout of the tank but same thing as soon as I turn up th ereturn a little bit it starts to empty out water.
Is there a SECRET that someone knows on how to adjust it ? Am I suppose to put the water in the sump and not the tank?
I do not think the water shoudl be seeping out that is doing nothing any help please??
 
lion_crazz

lion_crazz

Active Member
What kind of pump do you have?
How much water flow is your overflow box rated for? Is it a pre-drilled tank or a hang-on overflow box?
 
jacrmill

jacrmill

Member
im a little confused as to what you are saying is happening. Do you mean if you add water to the display tank that it overflows onto the floor? Or are you saying it spills out of your sump? Typically your pump and HOB overflow will kind of sync up to take care of themselves. the pump will pump as much water in the display as it can, and the HOB will syphon out whatever flows over the top of where you have the water level set.
That is true, unless your pump is rated to pump more water than your overflow can pull out, which I dont think is what you are saying. That would cause the same problem with your wet/dry anyways. since I am guessing this is a new problem, that is probably not it. So where is the water seeping? You say "the pump is barely on and so the water is seeping out". Where is it seeping out off? do you mean the pump isnt pumping much water so it is just seeping out of the return hose into the display?
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
Not exactly sure what you mean by empty out really quick but if you mean when you turn the pump up you get a loud gargling noise from the overflow you may need to look into putting a durso standpipe in. If you can post pics of your setup that would help alot. If you have too little flow going through a HOB overflow you run the risk of accumulating air in the U-tube and having a flood.
If the overflow is empting your tank to a level that is to low you need to raise the overflow there should be a couple bolts through slotted hole so that you can slide the overflow box inside the tank up and down to adjust the level of the water in your tank.
It doesn't matter where you add water it will equal itself out I recomend only adding water to the sump so that your water has chance to mix before it enter the display tank plus it's easier to pour water into the tank on the floor than lift a bucket up over the side of the display.
 
ricky1066

ricky1066

Member
Sorry if I was not clear
I have a hang over overflow about 3 days now I started with the bio balls sump tank But was told by 100 people to dump the bio balls.
So i CUT THE TOP OF THE SUMP TANK TO MAKE IT TWO SIDES Bought the sock added the chaeto the other pump i had originally was too small what I have now is eheim 1262
I had to return the other pump because it made a alot of noise.
Now I have the hose that comes with the hob overlow running straight down 3 foot to the sock descent flow not great . If I turn the return pump up more then a bit to when I actually see water moving out of the return line I see the water level in the sump tank drop. to the point where MY main tank overflows with water that is emptying out of the sumpSo I have to turn the return pump to almost off (seeping out of the line)
Funny thing is when I had the bioballs the water matched up ok I have no idea what the problem is now I have tried al lI know. I guess you might be right the pump is pumping faster then the water can come in so Now I have t buy a smaller pump the one I had was 700 gph and made alot of noise so I switched it,
is there a certain thing i am not doing to get this to level out?
 
jacrmill

jacrmill

Member
i think you do need a smaller pump. That is a different type of HOB overflow than I have, but I would guess it is not rate for much more than 300 maybe 600 at the absolute most. with a 700 pump, even with head loss, I imagine it is too much.
So bottom line is you have either too strong of a pump, or too weak of an overflow depending on how much water movement you want. so a good question is, what kind of setup do you have and what do you want to keep? that will determine a lot on the amount of flow you need.
There are some things you can do instead of buying a new pump if you want. Instead of sending the return line straight to the display tank, you can send a line off that with a valve to send some of the water back to the sump. so basically some of the water goes to the display tank, but some goes straight back from where it came from. This is kind of a waste of a bigger pump, but does give you some flexibility. when you want to do water changes you can simply drain from that line, or if you ever want to upgrade, you already have the pump to do it.
 
jacrmill

jacrmill

Member
forgot to add the important part.....it is getting late, I would go to bed and

[hr]
with it tomorrow. Just make sure you have a powerhead circulating water, and if possible turn one so that it is stirring up water on the surface, this will mix the water with oxygen better. But bottom line is everything will probably be fine until morning, so go to bed and deal with it when you arent as frustrated as I would probably be right now.
 
ricky1066

ricky1066

Member
Thanks I have the main tank runing with two powerheads already just don't knw why this thing is so annoying I think I mioght need a larger drain
 
maxalmon

maxalmon

Active Member
You should have a thumbscrew on your internal overflow that allows you to raise and lower the skimmer box, lower the box as far as possible, also check to make sure the opening for the overflow on the outside of the tank doesn't have an obstruction. (I had a snail make it's way into an overflow drain and it almost flooded my room)
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Ricky,
Usually with the type of overflow you are showing, you can purchase additional overflow U tubes which will increase the flow rate out of your tank and help balance with the bigger pump. Cheaper than buying a new pump. Be careful with this type of overflow, because often when you have a power outage, the water level level in tank will drop off and break your siphon. When your power kicks back on the pump pushes all the water from the sump back into the DT and with no siphon your DT floods.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
My friend had a HUGE spill with one of those overflow boxes. The power went out at night when he was asleep, then must have come back on but unfortunately his overflow box lost syphon. His entire sump went in his main tank, then all over the floor. Had a big sump too.
 
maxalmon

maxalmon

Active Member
Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2452713
My friend had a HUGE spill with one of those overflow boxes. The power went out at night when he was asleep, then must have come back on but unfortunately his overflow box lost syphon. His entire sump went in his main tank, then all over the floor. Had a big sump too.
Thats part of the problem, the sump was too big and held too much water. If the sump is the correct size for the tank, it will only pump enough water into the tank and then the pump is sitting dry and you won't have a flood as the sump pump will be sucking air and not pumping more water into the tank.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Then the pump would burn out because it's not supposed to run dry. But I guess replacing the pump is better than the cleanup he had to do, plus replacing the carpet.
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
If these overflows are adjusted right the water level should never drop below the end of the U-tube on both sides when you shut the pump off if they do you will definently lose suction and have a flood when the pump is turned back on. I have only had one flood in 2 years of continous operation and that was because the intake of my return pump was blocked causing the flow to slow down so much that the water going through the U-tubes was moving to slow to carry any airbubbles that make there way into the tube out of the tube but it was a slow process. I had noticed a couple of days before that the water level in the tank was a little higher than normal and I didn't think much about it until I came downstairs and it had just started to seep over the edge of the tank only lost a gallon or two. When I investigated the problem I noticed that the U-tube was about 1/2 full of air.
So long story short turn the pump off and let every thing stop moving then turn it back on a few times to make sure everything works as it should and periodically check your pump intake for obstructions and your overflow tube for air and algea build-up and you will have years of worry free operation.
 
ricky1066

ricky1066

Member
I think i will try the u tube first .
Now when you say lower the over flow th eone in the tank or the one outside the tank?
The water in the sump has to be more then the tank so you are right as I already learned by just about overflowing I think I have to speed up the outgoing water to adjust .
 
ricky1066

ricky1066

Member
Thanks for all the advice what I did is I put the in the tank overflow lower then the one outside the OPPOSITE of what the guy in the store said It is coming out fast until I get a ball drip valve but I have it regualted for now.
Does anyone have a pic of a durso that I keep hearing about?
 
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