Success Pairing Maroon Clowns!!

[rook]

IJust want to pat my self on the back.
I just successfully paired two gold-stripped maroon clown fish. Here is my story
I had the first clown (the female) for about 10 months roughly. I also had a BTA for about the same amount of time that the female hosted in. I decided to try to add a second clown as a mate.
I received the second clown on Friday, March 7th. The female is about 2 1/2 inches, very dark maroon with bright gold stripes. The new male is about 1 1/4 inches, very bright reddish maroon, with white juvenal stripes.
I decided not to quarantine the male because I did not want to leave him alone for too long, and have him become a her. Also, I did not want to move the female to a qt tank with him, because she would be more likely to kill him in there. (I do still suggest quarantining fish.)
I kept the new male in a small reptile tank I got from my lfs that I drilled some holes into, and left him in the main tank. This way the female was able to see him and inspect him for two days, but was not able to kill him.
I released him on Saturday afternoon/night. Right off the get go, the female chased and attacked him, and the male fought back. Not wise on his part. But later that night, they calmed down. The female would not let the male anywhere near her or her bta, but was not chasing the male.
On Sunday, I feed them for the first time after introduction. Not good. The female made sure the male did not get anything to eat. And she decided to chase him again. I was not feeling good about the relationship.
Later on Sunday, I noticed that the female and male were getting quite close, and the female would bit at the male, but the male would back down and the female started being a little nicer.
Then it happened. The two were sort of fighting and the male gave the not so subtle sign of mating, the shiver. Within two hours he did this a good dozen times. They were definitely starting to get along.
On Monday morning the male was even allowed to stay on the females side of the tank. Very good. Then when I came home on Monday night, the male was sitting next to the female, just below the bta, and they were cuddling.
A match made in heaven. I was very worried at first but really it was quite quick and painless. From Friday at 10:00 AM to Monday night and they are a couple.

 

[acez28]

Thats great....did you have the lights turned off when you introduced him. I have heard that helps alot.

 

[stupid_naso]

I might be wrong. But from my experience with clowns, the shivering or nodding are signs of aggressiveness . Unless there is a different way of nodding, I would carefully watch them for the next couple of days . I have heard stories, again it's a hearsay, that people who have successfully paired a clown, after awhile the male ended up dead because of the female's change of heart.
Although sharing an anemone is a VERY good sign of pairing, I would watch them for the well-being of both clowns. Just in case .
stupid_naso

 

[rook]

Ace,
When I first introduced the male, and when I released him, I kept the lights off. You should keep the lights off anytime you add a new fish. That helps to minimize the stress on the new fish by helping the fish relax.
Stupid-Naso,
Actually, according to Joyce Wilkerson's "bible" on breeding clowns, the shivering is a sign the male displays to the female the he is giving in to the female and would like to become her mate. According to the book this is the tell tale sign that the two have become a pair. Particularly since she accepted the male into her home, which she will not even let me near.
By the way, another cute story. The BTA decided to move on me yesterday, and got too close to my capnella tree. So, I decided to move the tree before it was killed. When I stuck my hand near the anemone, the female attacked. So, I put a fish net in the water. Just seeing the net makes the female run and hide. But, the male couldn't care less. And, the male seemed to like me and nuzzeled my hand.
Also, the second the female ran off to hide, the male took the opportunity to take the bta for himself. I thought it was the cutest thing. Of course, once I was done, the female instantly came and showed the male where his place was. Next too the bta, not inside it. Inside the bta was her spot.
Well I thought it was cute, as did my girlfriend.

 

[pmauro]

I have to agree with Stupid_Naso. I had a pair of Perc's that I introduced at the same time I made sure one was larger than the other. The went through the same ritual you mentioned and did well together for a couple of months and then she started beating the crap out of him to the point I had to remove him to save him. so until they actually spawn the first time I would be ever watchful. just my .02

 

[rook]

Just an update,
The two now live in the anemone together, and the female appears very protective of her new found friend.

 

[azonic]

I wouldn't say they are a "pair" of clowns...just two clowns in the same tank. Just because they share an anemone means nothing. They are by no means "paired" in that short a time...I had a sebae and perc share an anemone once...does that make them a pair?
If your intent was to hopefully mate them or try to have clown fry...I wouldn't expect it anytime remotely soon. While it is possible to pair up two clowns to get them to mate...it takes MUCH longer then several days.

 

[bas12547]

Without sounding like a 12 year old that needs a health class, how do you know which is male and female?
Brian

 

[beth]

Clownfish can undergo --- change. Thus, if you place 3 males in a tank, 1 will become a female [larger fish], the others will remain males.
The female is usually the larger clownfish, about double in size.
I have a single cinnimon clown and I am dying to try pairing it, but have been afraid that he will kill off a new clown. I may try it.

 

[ocellaris_keeper]

From my experience and research you should never introduce ONE new clown fish into a tank with one established clown. try to introduce two or even better three - this gives the existing fish the option to figure out which one it wants to mate with.
remove the other two into your QT tank and take them back or keep them in the QT - they will be really bored in the QT and if you do it right these two might just spawn!!

 

[rook]

Bruce,
It really depends on the species of clownfish. Percula and ocellaris have been known to pair up better when adding two juvenels at the same time, but maroons almost always kill each other in that situation. According to everyone I asked who breeds maroons, and to Joyce Wilkerson's book, you need to introduce a second juvenel maroon that is much smaller and much lighter in color than the existing larger, darker female. And, you want to introduce the juvenel into the main tank with the female.
The reason behind this is that the female will be very protective of her territory and attack the juvenel. The juvenel will notice the size and color difference, relize that this is the females tank, and succumb to the female thus becoming her mate.
If you remove the pair to a qt tank, you will disrupt the authority position the female has, likely increase the juvenel's desire to fight for control of the qt and likely lead to the ultimate death of one of the maroons.
Maroons being so agressive will fight until death, or until one gives into the other. You want to increase the likelihood of submission.
At least this is what I have been told about pairing maroons, this is what most have found to work, and this is what has worked in my situation.

 

[spyderreef]

Rook,
I know very little about maroon clowns and thought maybe you might know. I have 2 maroons that are, what I was told, a mated pair. I've had them for more than a year. The female is becoming very large. She is almost bigger than my yellow tang. The male is quite small, they look like a ridiculous pair. My question is will my female become aggressive with other fish? The other fish in my tank seem more skiddish than usual. Even when it comes to eating the hippo tangs hide. I had two cleaner gobies and I have only seen one. I have added nothing to my tank. I don't see her chasing anyone. Is it possible for them to breed in the tank with the other fish? I have 6 anemones and 4 of them I see her take care of. Any thoughts? For the most part the tank is fine, I just see the other fish hiding more than usual.

 

[rook]

Well I can not really speak from experiance so take this as just a shot in the dark.
I know maroons are one of, if not the most agressive clownfish. This is especially true of mated pairs hosting an anemone. The female will generally be very protective of her anemone and her mate. If they do spawn (and possibly a little before) the female is known to get quite agressive to protect her eggs. This makes for a difficult time catching the fry as they hatch.
It is very normal for a female to reach sizes around 6 inches. They are also one of, if not the largest clownfish. Males typically stay about half that size. Females also will get a dark burgandy color while the male generally stays a brighter red. Of course some old males have grown bigger and darker, but that is not the normal situation.
I do not have any other fish with my maroon now, but when I had just the female, she successfully killed (either directly or by causing excess stress) a firefish, jawfish, two blue reef chromis. Whether or not your maroons will attack your other fish is hard to say. They should be somewhat acclimated to being around the other fish, so maybe not.
Tangs generally are quite agressive themselfs and should be more than able to protect themselfs. Your gobies should not be a problem just do to their nature of staying out of the way. The chromis may or may not. Just keep an eye on them to see if they are stressed out. When you feed watch to see if the maroon takes control and dosn't let other fish feed until she is done.
IMO, that is quite a few agressive and large fish in that tank. 2 maroons and 4 tangs. But I am not here to preach.
Also, white stripped maroons are said to be quite a bit more agressive than gold stripped maroons.
Will they mate? Hard to say. I don't think the fact that you have other fish in your tank will prevent it, but it still may never happen just because. It is said that maroons can take many years together before they start to mate, but once they start they mate like rabbits.
This is all taken from books or other people so I don't speak from first hand knowledge.

 

[spyderreef]

Thank you for your insight, I appreciate the response. After observing my tank for a longer period of time it is quite obvious to me that it is one of my blue tangs that has become the aggressor. I started with 3 and right away one jumped out of the tank and died. The 2 got along fine. In the fall I acquired a friends tank and fish which included a blue tang. After consulting a number of sources I added him to my tank. At first he was different in color. After a couple of days he looked like the other two. I have been paying much closer attention to my new 120 that I did not notice this new behavior. Do you know anything about these tangs? Should I put him in another tank?

 

[j21kickster]

Originally posted by pmauro
just my .02
Why do you have to "put your two cents in" but it's only a "penny for your
thoughts"? Where's that extra penny going too ?

 

[xxvietxjustinxx]

Well GOOD JOB!
I also have a pair of maroon clowns. They weren't paired or mated when I got them but they did come from the same fish store. There was a big one, and one little one. So me and my dad took a chance and bought both of them.(they were in different tanks at the LFS) So when I put them into my QT, they both got right together, and paired up. I use the same water for both the QT and the Main Tank, and they looked stressed, so I decided to move them(flame me for doing it, sorry guys, I was still a newbie back then) so right when i put them in, they came together, and they are still with me...
The second I put them in, they immediately paired together, its weird, I guess it was love at first site

 

[beth]

Rook, what does your reference book say about cinnamon or tomato clowns? Any insights how I might go about matching up or introducing another cinnamon into my tank from your sources? Mine is a yr old already. It was a juvenile when I got it, but on the verge of being an adult. She's about on inch or inch and half. She's hosted by zoos and a toadstool, as you can see in this pic.

 

[rook]

Well I have no direct experiance with these clowns so any comments come from Joyce Wilkerson's book, Clownfishes.
Distinguishing between Cinnamon (Amphiphrion Melanopus) and Tomato (Amphiprion Frenatus) is difficult at best. Typically though, adult tomato clowns possess red pelvic and anal fins whereas adult cinnamon clowns have black pelvic and anal fins. Looking at how dark your clown is I would say it is now an adult and a female. The males generally stay a youthful bright red color.
These type of clowns (tomato and cinnamon alike) are said to not be too picky about their mates. They are also said to be one of, if not the easiest clown to pair, mate, spawn, and rear the fry. As opposed to maroons which are one of the hardest.
There are two proven methods or pairing amphiprion clowns according to Wilkerson. 1) Start with two juveniles and allow them to proceed though courtship and dominance to determine who will be female and who will be male. But, since you already have a female this will not work for you.
2) Is basically what I did above. Introduce a juvenile to an established female. But, she suggest putting the female and the juvenile into a broodstock (qt) tank to break apart any dominance the female has in the main tank. I suppose this difference between maroons and amphiprion clown species is due to the overly aggressive nature of maroons. It is also suggested that if the two clowns fight too much during the day, turn off the lights and they will settle down.
The idea is still to ensure that the female quickly establishes a dominance over the new juvenile and forces the juvenile to become a male. Therefore I would still think adding a much smaller and lighter in color juvenile is advantageous to the two becoming a pair.
Also, it goes without saying that two females will fight to the death, as with any clown species.
Good Luck. The book I have is a great book. It talks about the different clown species, anemone species, clown/anemone relationships, pairing, mating, raising clowns, raising live food for the fry, and a great deal more. Everything you need to know to raise clownfish.
BTW,
Yesterday I added a porcelin crab to my tank. I was told by a person I trust at my lfs that the crab should not disturb the relationship with the clowns and anemone. Well this morning the crab and both clowns were side by side in the bta. Quite cute actually. I was surprised that the female allowed the crab to be inside of the anemone. Who knows maybe it will be short lived and the crab will be forced to find a new home.
And, since I added the second clown, for the first time my bta seems to be starting to bulb. Very cool since I have tried everything to make it bulb. Maybe two clowns and a crab it make it decide to split.

 

[krunk]

When LARC starts up, im definately interested in one of teh babys

 

[y2says]

I also have a maroon clown that's been in my tank for about 10 months and I've been thinking about adding another to pair them up. I've always been afraid of spending $30 to have it get his ass kicked. That's nice to know that you had a success. Maybe I'll go get one too now. I had a porcelin crab before my clown booted it out somewhere. Those are neat.