Successfully keeping an Adult Emperor Angel

jgall

jgall

Member
New to the fourum, not so new to the hobby with about 10 years experience mainly with tanks 75 gallons and smaller. Currently trying to stock a 120 gallon FOWL tank. Wanted the main attraction / showpiece to be an Adult Emperor Angel. Currently have had one approximatley 5-6inches for about 3 1/2 weeks now, and he/she will not eat anything. Ive tried dried algage, freeze dried Ogo, enriched brine shrimp, krill, mysis, bloodworms, angel/butterfly frozen formula, rods reef, baby brine, cyclopeeze, and roe eggs with abosulutely no response other only occassionaly nipping at the live rock. Does anyone have any ideas what I am doing wrong or is this just a poor choise for a tank this size? Dimension are 48in x 24in x 24in. Any help would be more than greatly appreciated.
 
crypt keeper

crypt keeper

Active Member
Your tank is very small for an emp. I had one at 2.5 inches and I have grown him out to almost 5. It was in a 75 at first now moved to a 6 foot 150. Plans for it to be in a even bigger tank as he grows. IME Emps that big placed in small areas will be stressed out and not acclimate well. You really need to realize this guy will grow way over a foot in length and their terriotory in the wild is the size of a house. Its not really the gallons for these guys as it is with any large fish. Its footprint of the tank. An 8 foot tank that is 3 feet wide would serve a emp pretty damn well.
Anyway since you have him try a raw clam on the shell opened up soaked in garlic. If not Place algae sheets in the tank rubberbanded to rocks. Dont use the clip. The clip is unklnown object to them. They dont know it so they dont trust it. Let the sheets stay in for 24 hours.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
I would agree that it is definitely not a good choice for that tank size unless it is basically a grow out system. But I agree with the posts above - a fish that size is already pretty sizable, and I think would be stressed. What other fish do you have? Is the tank itself relatively new?
 
jgall

jgall

Member
I forgot that I had already tried clam on the halfshell but not soaked in garlic which I have available (Kent Garlic Extreme). Was also feeding wrong with the clips. Im going to keep trying but don't really expect the fish to make it, What large angels would fair better in a tank this size? Blue Girdled, or Gold Spotted maybe? And would a Semilevartus Butterfly do ok in this tank. I currently have a powder blue tang, three heiniochous butterfies, and 4 out of the original 10 blue/green chromis. I intend on having 8 lyretail anthias, flame hawk fish, flame angel, purple tang (perhaps a bad idea as well) and a midas blenny (told they sometimes school with the lyretail anthias's).
 
cranberry

cranberry

Active Member
Those lyretails won't go in a tank that small either. Not 8 of them. I feel like the party pooper.
Purples and powder blues will go at it in that size tank. Your tank size is actually marginal for a powder blue IMO.
And that's a whole lot of fish for that tank.
I hope you are up to revamping some of that. We can help you so that you end up with a nice mix that pleases you just as well. But you know those things that make your eyes get wider when you read it? I did that when I read the list. I mean that in a very nice way.
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Ophiura, the tank has been running for approximately 3 months, used Carrib Sea livesand, Large pieces of dry (old live rock approximately 100 lbs), performed 20 gallon water changes about every three weeks and dosed the tank with Seachem Stability as directed.
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Cranberry, not the party pooper, that's why I have turned here, I want to learn from everyone's experience, instead of continuing to throw away hundreds, make that thousands of dollars on fish that I was poorly educated on. How many lyretails should I add then?
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Originally Posted by crypt keeper
http:///forum/post/3150990
Your tank is very small for an emp. I had one at 2.5 inches and I have grown him out to almost 5. It was in a 75 at first now moved to a 6 foot 150. Plans for it to be in a even bigger tank as he grows. IME Emps that big placed in small areas will be stressed out and not acclimate well. You really need to realize this guy will grow way over a foot in length and their terriotory in the wild is the size of a house. Its not really the gallons for these guys as it is with any large fish. Its footprint of the tank. An 8 foot tank that is 3 feet wide would serve a emp pretty damn well.
Anyway since you have him try a raw clam on the shell opened up soaked in garlic. If not Place algae sheets in the tank rubberbanded to rocks. Dont use the clip. The clip is unklnown object to them. They dont know it so they dont trust it. Let the sheets stay in for 24 hours.
Any other suggestions for a tank my size, please???
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3151003
Those lyretails won't go in a tank that small either. Not 6 of them. I feel like the party pooper.
Purples and powder blues will go at it in that size tank. Your tank size is actually marginal for a powder blue IMO.
And that's a whole lot of fish for that tank.
I hope you are up to revamping some of that. We can help you so that you end up with a nice mix that pleases you just as well. But you know those things that make your eyes get wider when you read it? I did that when I read the list. I mean that in a very nice way.
YES, definitely revamping. Cranberry, not the party pooper, that's why I have turned here, I want to learn from everyone's experience, instead of continuing to throw away hundreds, make that thousands of dollars on fish that I was poorly educated on. How many lyretails should I add then?
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Originally Posted by Cranberry
http:///forum/post/3151003
Those lyretails won't go in a tank that small either. Not 6 of them. I feel like the party pooper.
Purples and powder blues will go at it in that size tank. Your tank size is actually marginal for a powder blue IMO.
And that's a whole lot of fish for that tank.
I hope you are up to revamping some of that. We can help you so that you end up with a nice mix that pleases you just as well. But you know those things that make your eyes get wider when you read it? I did that when I read the list. I mean that in a very nice way.
I want more of your input.
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Originally Posted by crypt keeper
http:///forum/post/3151017
do you have a qt? any pictures? doe she look fat or his sides sunken in?
No pictures yet, too embarrassed, definitely sides sunken in, no quarantine, was using Cupramine (non chelated copper) in main display because display will be fish only.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
I will say it this way - the stock list you desire would, IMO, overcrowd a 180. :)
I have to say I am really concerned about the stock level of such a very very young tank :( I would personally slow it down on stocking. Unfortunately I think two of the most delicate fish that need mature established systems are in there first, and that can be contributing to the issue with the angel (apart from the fact it is just too big).
The 3 heniochus, IMO will be an issue in this tank, and agree on the anthias for sure. I would definitely not add a purple, or probably any other tang if you have a power blue and want a larger angel and butterfly as well. the balance is just to fine, and if a stress tips it, a disease will take a lot. Do you QT all your fish?
The unfortunate thing is that a 120 is really a pretty small tank all considering :( The potential for stress is high with some sizable fish in there. I know it is kind of a bummer.
 
crypt keeper

crypt keeper

Active Member
Im going to be brutally honest. Your fish list is way too much for a 4 foot tank. Its not gallons in this hobby I have learned. People can argue it all they want. Its swimming room. Left to right not up and down for big fish like angels and tangs.
In all honesty you need to get this guy eating. I think your tank is overstocked and he is stressed out. Not very much room.
perfect example is your chromis. They killed each other off. You will eventually be down to 2 then 1.
If I had the money. 8 foot tank by atleast 2 feet wide. That would ideal for your list IME. You can choose height but anything over 2 feet is a waste and a pain in the rear to clean. an 8 x 2 x 2 would be great for many many years
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by JGall
http:///forum/post/3151020
No pictures yet, too embarrassed, definitely sides sunken in, no quarantine, was using Cupramine (non chelated copper) in main display because display will be fish only.
this is a bit of an uh oh - the live rock is not so live for getting some of the nibblers held over until they take to the prepared foods.
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3151021
I will say it this way - the stock list you desire would, IMO, overcrowd a 180. :)
I have to say I am really concerned about the stock level of such a very very young tank :( I would personally slow it down on stocking. Unfortunately I think two of the most delicate fish that need mature established systems are in there first, and that can be contributing to the issue with the angel (apart from the fact it is just too big).
The 3 heniochus, IMO will be an issue in this tank, and agree on the anthias for sure. I would definitely not add a purple, or probably any other tang if you have a power blue and want a larger angel and butterfly as well. the balance is just to fine, and if a stress tips it, a disease will take a lot. Do you QT all your fish?
The unfortunate thing is that a 120 is really a pretty small tank all considering :( The potential for stress is high with some sizable fish in there. I know it is kind of a bummer.
I open for suggestions on a stocklist, only stipulation would be one large angel. I had even though about possibly a few butterfies, a gold spotted angel and flame wrasse but tank would be very busy.
 
jgall

jgall

Member
Originally Posted by JGall
http:///forum/post/3151026
I open for suggestions on a stocklist, only stipulation would be one large angel. I had even though about possibly a few butterfies, a gold spotted angel and flame wrasse but tank would be very busy.
excuse me, would not be very busy.
 
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