Sudden death

[jaeger]

A week ago I added my first anemone, a bubble tip anemone, to my 50 gallon bowfront (75lbs. of rock, pH 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrate 5.0 ppm: 192 watt compact fluorescent lighting; Maroon clownfish, small flame hawkfish, very small panther gouper, coral beauty, tiny clown goby; banded coral shrimp, sifting star, maroon star, sundry snails/dwarf scarlet hermit crabs). The clownfish (have had in the tank for 5 months) took to the anemone immediately, and wouldn't leave the anemone for about 2 days. Suddenly it left the anemone, and an hour later died. Four days later, the coral beauty also suddenly died-an hour before its death it was very active and healthy appearing, then it began swimming sideways, and a hour later it was dead. Eight hours later, the panther grouper suddenly went to the bottom after its usual moderately active day. None of the fish appeared to have been diseased, and seemed to die suddenly (within an hour). So far the clown goby, hawkfish, stars, shrimp, snails, crabs, and anemone look fine. I increased the flow rate of my powerhead earlier in the day before the coral beauty and grouper died. Temperature has been fine. Anyone have any thoughts about what may have gone wrong?

 

[bigarn]

What is the nitrite reading? Have you recently added LR or LS?

 

[shawna]

how old is your tank, how long has it bien cured/cycled? how long total has it bien set up? what's your current reading of amonia ? nitrates ? nitrites? salinity/specific gravity? ph 8.2 is good. has anything gotten into the tank? cleaner products like windex? just trying to think of all my mistakes to see if it might help (not that you'd do the dumb things I have like mixing salt in the tank and watching in horror at what I'd done as my critters melted in front of me) just trying to think. all critters in tank currently are alive right no dead crabs or lil guys hidden in the rocks? no test solutions fell in (yep I did that : ( just grasping at straws what5 was yur last purchase (livestock) and how long between th critters did they have in the tank? just a few thoughts not sure what would cause it only as I'd said my mistakes previously
oh how about temp?

 

[shawna]

doc this was post one for you how long have you bien cured and cycled ? just a lil worried
sorry just re read your post not a new cycle good then!
shawna

 

[jaeger]

The tank had been cycled over 6 months, specific gravity 1.025-1.027, temp 75degrees, never added LS, and no LR in more than a month. The live rock I have was cured in the LFS. What struck me as odd was the speed with which the fish went from behaving well and in a healthy fashion to dying. I wondered whether the current from the powerhead may have pushed them into the anemone to be stung, but that wouldn't account for the death of the maroon clownfish days before. I haven't checked nitrites. I haven't had any chemicals near the tank. About two weeks before the Apocalypse, I added Phosgard pellets to my filter setup (recc'd by my LFS, in preparation for possibly adding corals in the future). Thanks for the interest and help so far.

 

[shawna]

doc I'm still a bit of newbie so hopefully bang or kip or one of the experts will be on soon and will reply. I did read some where that the clowns that are raised in captivity sometimes don't take well to the anemonies. but you'd said he'd hosted for a while so most likely not it . I might be mistaken so please change nothing at my word but I thought that a healthy range for specific gravity topped of at1.024 to 1.025 max and that healthy would range around 1.021 to1.024 and I've tended to keep my temp around 80 to 82 but neither I wouldn't believe should cause such an immediate decline as to wich you are speaking. that's why I thought mabya chemical or a mising and deceased critter hidden away but the later would be an ammo spike as well. nitrates are a big issue in salt and I'm under the impression that the best way to lower is to ue ro/ri water and do water changes. so far I've bien blessed in that when I started to have the nitrate spike I was able to change over to live sand and that lowered it remarkbly for me. I did loose a few crustations r/t the same. a few sally light foot as well as a decoorater crab and a few emerald crabs. the crustations are I believe more suseptable to the nitrate range but it is toxic to fish after a certain level as well.I believe but please don't quote me that the level for nitrates to become markedly toxic is around 35 to 40. most try to stay below 10 I believe wich at 5 you are. I have in the past had a few true perk's that had swam happy healthy a pleasure to watch and then at the bottom they labored only a little while and then the perished that was believed to be bacterial in nature and it was rapid but again I am thinking over a few hours to maby six? well I don't know if this was of any help to you. you may be best to repost inccluding "bang guy or the "moderaters" in the post. between some of these guys they are" a livlng encyclopedia of knowledge regarding aquaria " as well they are all wonderful persons and willing to help. sorry I don't have more to offer oh you might also want to post under diseases beth might be on and she is a wiz with fish ailments. she has saved mine once before (at least)
good luck Doc!
shawna
just one other thought and just a guess is the anemonie healthy? I was just wondering if they would give of a release of some sort that might cause it? either as a self defense /stun the pray or as in deteriorating ill and blanched again just reaching .

 

[shawna]

^

 

[essop3]

We could all handle a code just fine, but none of us can fix this tank.
I'd check all the levels again. Maybe your anemone is dead and caused an ammonia spike? Not likely but an idea.

 

[big911dog]

i read somewhere that when fish head for the bottom, start thinking poisons of some type (copper, etc). if the tank is in ur office, any chance of someone throwing a penny in?

 

[wbradenpt]

i'd test the nitrites before attempting any type of diagnosis. not a medical opinion, just my 2 cents worth.

 

[jaeger]

Thanks for the responses-the anemone looks great-I've got to pick up some nitrite testing materials and check it. The tank is at home, and so far haven't had anyone messing with it. My kids have their own tanks (20 & 29) they're working on, so they don't bother much with the bigger tank.

 

[masterzeus]

Wow, shawna, you have had a lot of things go wrong. You should write a book about what NOT to do. :yes: :yes: We have all been new to this at one point and had ...um... some of the same problems.
As for jaeger's problem, it sounds to me like they got stung(sp?) by something. If it was the anemone, I don't know what happened to the clown. Maybe it was a different type of anemone for a different part of the ocean that he was not used to? I have had fish die from stingings and they behaved exactly like you said. Fine one second, dead an hour later. Do you have any aiptasia in the tank? It could be that stinging them. Or you could have some chemical warfare going between two anemone and/or corals which the fish got in the middle of. Good luck finding the cause.

 

[perfectdark]

This is odd... I too have had a similiar experience with both of my clown fish..
My tanks is approx 3 months old all my tests are done with the Salifert test kits. I check them all.. no signs of high levels of poisionus chemicals. My temp is always between 79 and 82. My fish are/were, a Royal gramma 1st fish introduced to the tank, 2 false ocellaris 4 weeks after gramma was added these 2 were added both about 1" ea when they were purchased, and the last one was a midas blenny added about a month ago. About 3 weeks ago i lost a clown it was Mia for 2 days until my florida condi spit what was left of him out. He got traded in for a BTA, I replaced the clown with a white and black ocellaris. Now last night i get home and the other orange clown the 2nd of the pair i had orginally had in there is being chowed on by 2 of my hermits.

Very strange as i thought these were very hardy fish and the gramma is still doing well. I dont know maybe they are too aggresive when they start to host on the anenomie and it looks at them as a snack... I am completly in the dark too. I also have to say i had an other BTA die in my tank and for almost 3 weeks my nitrates were about 40 i was doing 50% water changes every 3 days, and my fish appeared to not be the least bit affected. My trates have been down for 2 weeks now to under 10 and this is when i lose my clown... soo odd.

 

[rattler739]

something similar happened to me but i am at the beginning of it, my tank has only been up for about two and a half months and cycled within the first week but out of nowhere my nitrates went up to around there and I had a emerald crab die. ive done a water change and changed out the carbon/sponge insert and it was still up so i am going to do another waterchange today but is there anything else i should do?

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by rattler739
something similar happened to me but i am at the beginning of it, my tank has only been up for about two and a half months and cycled within the first week but out of nowhere my nitrates went up to around there and I had a emerald crab die. ive done a water change and changed out the carbon/sponge insert and it was still up so i am going to do another waterchange today but is there anything else i should do?

What else is in your tank? And have you modified the back chambers at all?
it is possible if there is too much bacteria in the back of your tank you can cause a nitrate spike. I usually stick my syphon back there and suck out any debris that is laying at the bottom of the chambers. I also take out the bio balls and suck the bottom of that chamber out too. If you trates went up that high that quick i would have to say that something else died in your tank or it is still cycling. But more info as to what is in your tank is needed.

 

[rattler739]

actually i am new to this forum but have been reading a lot and yesterday i went out and got stuff for the back but as of right now it is not modded
I have a 14g biocube stock until tonight
17lbs of lr
15-20lbs of ls
neon goby
clown goby
7hermits
5 trochus snails
sexy shrimp and a rock anemone

 

[nietzsche]

condi wouldnt host clowns at all so trading it out was a good idea. royal gramma can get a bit aggressive. maybe killed your clowns? you said the gramma is doing fine and is in the tank still. if there were any chemicals it would have killed the gramma along with inverts most likely. nitrates wouldnt have killed the fish unless it was super high

 

[nietzsche]

Originally Posted by rattler739
something similar happened to me but i am at the beginning of it, my tank has only been up for about two and a half months and cycled within the first week but out of nowhere my nitrates went up to around there and I had a emerald crab die. ive done a water change and changed out the carbon/sponge insert and it was still up so i am going to do another waterchange today but is there anything else i should do?
your tank cycled within 1 week? are you sure? if your nitrates shot up it doesnt sound like it was through?? im still cycling two 10 gallon tanks and i started like a week ago.

 

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by nietzsche
condi wouldnt host clowns at all so trading it out was a good idea. royal gramma can get a bit aggressive. maybe killed your clowns? you said the gramma is doing fine and is in the tank still. if there were any chemicals it would have killed the gramma along with inverts most likely. nitrates wouldnt have killed the fish unless it was super high
Yea i figured the nitrates were not the reason as for the gramma she or he is the calmest most docile one in the tank. Never ruffles any feathers at all. These fish have also existed together for more than 2 months now none show signs of fighting, torn fins, distress...etc infact they all eat together just fine. The condi was just for the look i didnt expect the clowns to host but i never imagined it had the capabilities of being so aggresive.

 

[rattler739]

Originally Posted by nietzsche
your tank cycled within 1 week? are you sure? if your nitrates shot up it doesnt sound like it was through?? im still cycling two 10 gallon tanks and i started like a week ago.
Im sure because i put lr/ls in the day after i got it set up and started testing the next day and saw everything go up and back down. everything was perfect up until a few days ago i noticed that they had just spiked.
I did a small water change and changed some the back chambers yesterday and checked thismorning and they went down to about 15-20 and hopefully they will keep going down or Ill just do another water change tomorrow. if they still dont go down all the way I will probably get some nitrate sponge, what do you think?