suggestion

trotsky123

Member
Hi, I am giving up on my 16 gallon tank.
Water is perfect, everything looks great but my fish keeps dying.
Saw on some forum that someone had same problem and they figured out that it's just a small tank.
Please, let me know what is the smallest size I should get?
I can NOT get 200 gallons or some insane amounts as most here suggest, so if you can give me the real minimum, I would greatly APPRECIATE it!
thank you
 

mproctor4

Member
How old is your tank?
What exactly are the readings for you water?
What fish have you put in the tank that have died?
What kind of fish would you like to have if you get a bigger tank?
Personally, I think a 30 gallon is the smallest I would go but many people have great success with smaller tanks. You just have to keep a closer eye on things because there is much less room for error. My hubbie has a beautiful 29 gallon biocube with 5 SMALL fish and several corals. I like the fact that everything is contained in one cube area and it is fairly budget friendly. (as much as this hobby can be) Get the largest tank you can afford and have room for, most people upgrade down the road and it cost more money in the long run.
 

trotsky123

Member
Hi, my tank is only 10 mo old.
Latest reading when my last clown died were
1.0225 salinity
7.9 Ph
Ammonia, Nitrite all 0
Nitrate between 5-10ppm (because another dies the day before)
water is crystal clear
Some people on forum suggested it's my rocks, but my friend has same rocks in his 50 gallon and all fish are doing fine.
I can go from 30-50 probably
 

mproctor4

Member
Did your fish die right away or did they live for a while?
Did you have more than one fish in there at a time? If you added more than one fish at a time or didn't leave enough time in between additions it may have been to much for your bioload to adjust.
Why do people think it is in your rock? If there is something wrong with your rock, a 16 gallon doesn't have as much room for flucuation as a 50 does. If you add a drop of poison to 8oz of water and one drop to a gallon, it will be much stonger in the 8oz container. Same thing.
 

btldreef

Moderator
I've done tanks as small as 2G, it's not the size of the tank.
What type of fish are you putting in the tank, how much time do you wait in between each fish addition?
List EVERYTHING about your tank, equipment, what you use to test, how old they are, what type of rocks, how much rock, sand, ALL inhabitants (past and present), what you feed, how often you feed, etc.
Have you ever had your test results tested against a LFS's results?
Size is not the issue, there are many people that run Nano and Pico tanks without issues.
 

mproctor4

Member
Not trying to be mean but if you want help you really need to provide very specific information about your tank, not "the LFS said my water was perfect". Personally, I would be very grateful that BTLDreef is trying to help you, I would trust her 100x more than your LFS. You have alot of time and money invested in this tank and it won't take long to provide the information that BTLDreef requested of you.
 

trotsky123

Member
No problem, I've been doing it in all other forums and after I write everything, I get nothing but jokes.....I still hope to get help OR hints on what to do.
I have 16 gallon bowfront - all I wanted was 2 clowns for my daughter and some clean up crew.
Marineland biowheel filter for 30 gallon
Only one 50x50 bulb.
You can see rocks on the picture. Corals are dead corals.
I have a hydrometer and API test kit w/ all these bottles.
I added 2 small chromis after cycling which lived for over a month.
Then I got two very little clowns.
Right after one chromis died. Then another disappeared (I guess was eaten by clean up crew).
Then clowns go one by one after being in the tank for about a week, NOT right away.
I do check water while they are there.
SHOULD I RE-TRY THIS? ADD BRAND NEW WATER, ETC.?
 

gemmy

Active Member
What type of water are you using? Is there anything alive in the tank? I have this same exact tank and stand, so I might be able to help a little.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
I don't see anything in there moving the surface of the water around. You need surface aggitation.
it would also be helpful to have more live rock for natural filtration.
the chromis and clowns may not be compatible in a small tank together.
what temp do you keep the tank at?
 

trotsky123

Member
I am using Reverse Osmosis water only.
The temperature is 78 degrees
I do have Koralia Nano 240GPH
I have snails and crabs STILL living there - it throw flakes in there. Should I throw those shrimp there as well that I used to give clowns?
I don't want snails dead either.
I am looking to up my tank to like a Hex 40 gallon....or Hex is not a good idea for saltwater?
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
is your koarali making good waves on the surface of teh water though? it looks like its pointed down at a pretty steep angle
 

gemmy

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotsky123 http:///forum/thread/383443/suggestion#post_3354061
Gemmy, what kind of fish do you have?
Should I just empty it out and restart from scratch?
I have two 3 stripe damsels in mine and evil crabs, but I did keep the damsels and 2 clowns along with 5 hermits and about 12 snails (the clowns are alive and well in my 55). I do not think you need to start from scratch. This is what I did and what you may want to consider doing:
[list type=decimal]
[*]
I had about 25 lbs of live rock in my tank, which helped my biological filter considerably.
[*]
I used the HOB aquaclear filter rated for 50 gallon tank. I opted to use chemi pure elite for the carbon. I maintained the sponge weekly.
[*]
I perform weekly water changes of about 3-5 gallons.
[*]
I would not keep the same fish as I did (aggression issues may come up later down the road).
I feed my tank teeny, tiny meals every other day. I do not feed any flakes or pellets, these release way too many contaminants, IMO
I cycled the tank for 8 weeks before adding anything, I just ghost fed the tank and tested the water to ensure the tank could handle the bio load
I have two PH's koralia nano's one pointing to the surface creating small waves and one that points to the bottom.
[/list type=decimal]
 

gemmy

Active Member
Yes, I did about a 19% water change weekly. I believe me this helped me to achieve stable water parameters, especially since I opted to not run a protein skimmer. I would typically do 3 gallons but if I had a spike I would do 4 or 5.
In my 16, I had 2 clowns, 2 damsels (do not recommend doing both clowns and damsels due to aggression), zoas, mushrooms, and chili coral. I would recommend doing a pair of clowns and maybe a goby/shrimp combo. I would not add more than 3 fish.
 

trotsky123

Member
At this point I have two ways I can go
1) Get a new tank - about 40+ gallon - I can either get hexagon or corner - From my understanding the room for error is much higher than in smaller tank and is easier to maintain???
2) While I have no fish in my 16 gallon tank now but just snails and crabs - change like 50% water - add MORE liverock and try again
Which would you all recommend?
 

gemmy

Active Member
I would go with a larger tank, but not the hex. Can you get a standard tank or breeder tank? The aquascape and providing flow will be much easier. Now, can you afford the new equipment for the larger tank? I would recommend a sump/fuge setup and running a skimmer. If no sump can be done, I would recommend a fluval 305 canister filter with a skimmer.
 

btldreef

Moderator
There is no need for a larger tank if snails and crabs are living in this one. There are just things that need to be improved on in this tank, or you'll continue to have the same issues even with a larger tank. Yes, a larger tank will provide a bigger margin for error, but I don't believe that it's your water chemistry, so a larger tank isn't going to matter.
Hexagons make for terrible saltwater tanks. Corner tanks can be tricky for proper water flow/circulation in saltwater reefs.
How do you acclimate your fish?
IMO, I would do a 50% water change, or as large as you can do.
It does not look like you have that much live rock in there or much surface agitation. IMO, Koralia Nano's just plain suck. I have one my 14G and it barely moves the water around. I would get some live rock. You could go the route of uncured, which would mean recycling the tank, which at this point in time might not be a bad idea. This will kill the snails and hermits, so you might want to see if you can trade them in to your LFS.
What kind of sand is in there?
The hydrometer MAY be off. Is it a swing arm or floating model?
To me, my guess is that the tank never fully cycled and is fighting to play catch up. That coupled with poor oxygenation of the water and flow issues may be the problem.
Do you, or have you ever ran carbon?
Another thought that I'm going to throw out there:
Stray voltage? how do the fish act before they die?
The food you were feeding:
Flake food is garbage. Feed better foods such as Mysis shrimp, Emerald Entree and Marine Cuisine, any GOOD store is going to stock those items and they are available online as well. Flake food is like candy to fish, it does not have much nutritional value and really has no place in the saltwater hobby.
The fish:

Did they all come from the same store? This alone could be the issue.
Chromis do better in groups of 3 or more. When they're kept as a pair once usually kills the other. This is especially true in smaller tanks, they will kill each other. IMO, Chromis and Clowns will tend to be aggressive towards one another in a smaller tank as well. This aggression can become more of an issue if there aren't proper hiding places for the fish (rock).
A good stock list for you tank (and this can be played with):

2 Ocellaris clownfish
1 small goby (a yellow watchmen or Yasha Goby or something similar in size [3" or less])
1 Tailspot Blenny or BiColor Blenny (a tailspot is better suited for your size tank)
1 other SMALL fish such as a firefish, Orchid Dottyback, etc might be okay later down the road if parameters are in check.
5 Nassarius snails
5 Cerith Snails
10 Trochus snails
2 Skunk Cleaner shrimp or 1 Fire Shrimp
Ditch the hermits - in small tanks they'll kill the snails just for sport
15lbs of live rock
10-20lbs of live sand (I prefer20lbs in my 14G).
 
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