Sump Build

[yannifish]

Alright, after lots of research and planning, I think I am finally ready to build my sump. I plan on ordering my skimmer tomorrow (Reef Octopus 4 Needlewheel) so I can build baffles according to the water height it needs. So, it will still be a little while before I can actually get it started. Also will be ordering some fittings I can't find at the local hardware store.
Here is the sump design:
Water from the DT down a PVC pipe, which splits the flow at a T. The larger tube goes into the sump (10 gallon tank), which houses the heater and skimmer. The smaller tube goes to the refugium (4 gallon old wet dry), which in turn drains into the pumping chamber of the sump. The water in the skimmer chamber of the sump flows through a set of baffle to the pumping chamber, where it is pumped back to the DT.
I'll see if I can do a SketchUp model tomorrow.
Just a couple questions,
1) I have bioballs in my current filter which I am going to remove. If I haven't removed them all come sump instalation time, can I just dump them in the sump, and keep removing them?
2) Is the threading in all pumps standard?

 

[geoj]

1) Yes
2) You will have to read what the inlet and out let is on the pump and buy the right fittings to make it
“The smaller tube goes to the refugium (4 gallon old wet dry)” On this line you could put a ball valve to control how much of the main line goes to the refugium…

 

[2quills]

The thread is standard, just make sure you get the right size pipe of either FPT or MPT.
What kind of pump did you end up ordering?
Depending on how you actually run the plumbing will determin where you need to put the valve/valves. In most cases you only need it on the main drain line right below the "T" but depending on how the pipe is ran then yes you might want to put one on the branch that feeds the fuge as well.
Did you make a decision how what to make your baffles out of?

 

[yannifish]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/3288260
1) Yes
2) You will have to read what the inlet and out let is on the pump and buy the right fittings to make it
“The smaller tube goes to the refugium (4 gallon old wet dry)” On this line you could put a ball valve to control how much of the main line goes to the refugium…
Yes, the plan is to have a ball valve after the T on both lines.
Originally Posted by 2Quills
http:///forum/post/3288306
The thread is standard, just make sure you get the right size pipe of either FPT or MPT.
What kind of pump did you end up ordering?
Depending on how you actually run the plumbing will determin where you need to put the valve/valves. In most cases you only need it on the main drain line right below the "T" but depending on how the pipe is ran then yes you might want to put one on the branch that feeds the fuge as well.
Did you make a decision how what to make your baffles out of?
I need a MPT for this pump (Rapids Submersible Pump, 700 gph), which I will keep using, but I plan to upgrade to a Mag-Drive in the future. The only thing I don't like about my pump is it has restart problems. Do Mag-Drives? Also, are Mag-Drives pretty quiet?
No, I haven't figured that out. Worst case senario I have a glass shop cut me the right size, but I still think I should be able to get acrylic.
Does Home Depot sell acrylic?

 

[2quills]

From everything that I've read the mag drives seem to be pretty reliable pumps. But I can also tell you from what I've read and heard that the Ehiems run quieter and cooler than the mags. It's not a terribly huge difference in the price so I, myself will end up going with Ehiem, but Mag is my second choice for sure.
Yeah, Home Depot has it. Down here Lowes seems to have a better selection than Home Depot. Since you are only going to need it for a 10G sump I think you will be ok if you wanted to use the cheaper stuff. Just make sure you get the 1/4" stuff. Still would sugguest getting the stronger stuff that comes with the blue plastic on it if you can. But either way I think you'll be ok. Still will say that I think glass would be cheaper, easier and more reliable for a glass sump in a long term perspective.

 

[acrylic51]

Mag Drives over a period of time do have issues with restarts, but are very good pumps...I would think regular maintenance of the Mag Drive pump could possibly stop that issue!!!!!! Mag's also put heat back to the tank which is my major dislike of the pump. They will use the tank water to cool themselves as so do alot of other pumps on the market.....Some are just better at heat transfer than others......
Personally I'd opt to find a plastics dealer/acrylic supplier for my materials......All plastic/acrylic isn't the same, regardless of looks.....Depending what you purchase, could have glue up issues, crazing depending on finishing techniques........Water absorption is another factor you have to consider as well. What are the dimensions of the sump? I probably missed it?????

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by 2Quills
http:///forum/post/3288330
From everything that I've read the mag drives seem to be pretty reliable pumps. But I can also tell you from what I've read and heard that the Ehiems run quieter and cooler than the mags. It's not a terribly huge difference in the price so I, myself will end up going with Ehiem, but Mag is my second choice for sure.
Yeah, Home Depot has it. Down here Lowes seems to have a better selection than Home Depot. Since you are only going to need it for a 10G sump I think you will be ok if you wanted to use the cheaper stuff. Just make sure you get the 1/4" stuff. Still would sugguest getting the stronger stuff that comes with the blue plastic on it if you can. But either way I think you'll be ok. Still will say that I think glass would be cheaper, easier and more reliable for a glass sump in a long term perspective.
MMMMM I'd put any of my sumps up against a glass sump for reliability and longevity......

I over build my stuff, and I feel alot of people skimp/under build which leads to issues here......1/4" quality material would be the ticket, and to unsure longevity eurobrace the sump.....An option around eurobracing is to step up to 3/8" material, and your golden....No eurobracing to deal wiseth........
First 2 pics are of new sump just built with eurobracing, and can fill it to the brim with no bowing....I let it sit for 2 weeks to test.....The last 3 pics are of my sump for my 240......that is 1/4" material, used eurobracing and can all but overflow it without any bowing......Reliability all depends on how well it's built, and clean bubble free joints........
I might add DO NOT follow my eurobracing technique I used in the last 3 pics though......These are pics from 5 years ago, and have learned a bit.....Use radius corners instead of squared off corners....Radius corners will spread out/handle the stress pressure than a squared off joint.....Probably the best acrylic builder around James @ Envision clued my in on that bit of information......

 

[2quills]

No I agree with you, Shawn. There's absolutely nothing wrong with building an acrylic sump. But he's using a 10G glass tank for his sump, and since he said before in another thread that he doesn't live very close to any kind of plastics dealers or even home depot for that matter and said he had a glass shop close by is why I recommended it would be easier and safer bet for him to get glass since they could cut the pieces for him. As well as the bonding issues with the silicone using acrylic baffles. Not saying it can't work or shouldn't be done. But I think you would agree that the safest best is always the surest way to go.

 

[acrylic51]

Originally Posted by 2Quills
http:///forum/post/3288465
No I agree with you, Shawn. There's absolutely nothing wrong with building an acrylic sump. But he's using a 10G glass tank for his sump, and since he said before in another thread that he doesn't live very close to any kind of plastics dealers or even home depot for that matter and said he had a glass shop close by is why I recommended it would be easier and safer bet for him to get glass since they could cut the pieces for him. As well as the bonding issues with the silicone using acrylic baffles. Not saying it can't work or shouldn't be done. But I think you would agree that the safest best is always the surest way to go.

Gottcha!!!!!!!

 

[posiden]

Since the 10 gallon tank is made of 1/8" glass......doesn't mean the baffles should be the same thickness. I would have a heavier glass for the baffles. 1/8" is prone to breaking when used as a baffle.
Edit;
How are you planning on draining the fug into the sump? Will you be drilling the tanks, or placing them at different levels?

 

[yannifish]

I'll look into both glass and acrylic this week, I just haven't yet. I'll only get 1/4" acrylic, I want this thing to last. 100% silicon is what I need for installing the baffles, yes?
The fuge container is taller than the sump, and they are sitting next to each other. I will drill the fuge (which is acrylic) near the top so the water just drains into the sump.

 

[posiden]

Originally Posted by yannifish
http:///forum/post/3288560
I'll look into both glass and acrylic this week, I just haven't yet. I'll only get 1/4" acrylic, I want this thing to last. 100% silicon is what I need for installing the baffles, yes?
The fuge container is taller than the sump, and they are sitting next to each other. I will drill the fuge (which is acrylic) near the top so the water just drains into the sump.
Yep, 100% silicone. No additives. Lots of options, but aquarium grade comes with a piece of mind. If you don't mind the extra couple of bucks that is.
As mentioned by Acrylic51, please be aware of water absorbtion when/if you use acrylic for the baffles. Too tight and they will swell and blow out the side of your tank.

 

[gill again68]

Originally Posted by 2Quills
http:///forum/post/3288465
No I agree with you, Shawn. There's absolutely nothing wrong with building an acrylic sump. But he's using a 10G glass tank for his sump, and since he said before in another thread that he doesn't live very close to any kind of plastics dealers or even home depot for that matter and said he had a glass shop close by is why I recommended it would be easier and safer bet for him to get glass since they could cut the pieces for him. As well as the bonding issues with the silicone using acrylic baffles. Not saying it can't work or shouldn't be done. But I think you would agree that the safest best is always the surest way to go.
+1
Yup trust me that is what I would do. Like mentioned I wouldnt fool around with thin glass. Go ahead and get it a little thicker so you dont have to worry about handling it or bumping in when you do maintenance.

 

[yannifish]

Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/3288567
Yep, 100% silicone. No additives. Lots of options, but aquarium grade comes with a piece of mind. If you don't mind the extra couple of bucks that is.
As mentioned by Acrylic51, please be aware of water absorbtion when/if you use acrylic for the baffles. Too tight and they will swell and blow out the side of your tank.
Yes, I am aware I have to cut the acrylic smaller, thank you though.

 

[yannifish]

Originally Posted by Gill again68
http:///forum/post/3288625
+1
Yup trust me that is what I would do. Like mentioned I wouldnt fool around with thin glass. Go ahead and get it a little thicker so you dont have to worry about handling it or bumping in when you do maintenance.
Yes, we will see. Its mostly a matter of which will cost less.
Like I said, I'm going to look into both this week.
Acrylic sounds better to me personally, because it will be harder for me to break. Are there really any disadvantages to using acrylic? Other than attaching it to glass?
Does silicon not adhere to silicon at all?

 

[gill again68]

Originally Posted by yannifish
http:///forum/post/3288641
Yes, we will see. Its mostly a matter of which will cost less.
Like I said, I'm going to look into both this week.
Acrylic sounds better to me personally, because it will be harder for me to break. Are there really any disadvantages to using acrylic? Other than attaching it to glass?
Does silicon not adhere to silicon at all?
I say yes there are disadvantages but thats only because mine cause a sump to crack and I had 20 gallons of water on the floor. Cut the acrylic to tight. I think if you use a generous amount of silicon you wont have an issue. Mine stuck just fine. Like I said and others have mentioned dont cut it to fit, I think thats where things went wrong for me. Just as a note I spent $24 dollars on some 3/8 glass. It was 5 pieces and they were around 12x14 each. I would say thats cheap and will give you piece of mind.
Just .02 from me.

 

[acrylic51]

Nope.....That build process or style has been done alot, with ill affects....Again I think the problem really arises from improper cutting of baffles( cutting them to tight), to thin of material....(think about it water pressure will be about even on both sides in most cases), and with proper prep work (roughing up material edge where it will be siliconed) you shouldn't/wouldn't have any issues.....Again if you go this route why opt for flimsy material....I know, I know I over build/overkill, but I don't worry about anything exploding......If getting material is an issue, there are several places online that can cut/and ship, and as I had offered you earlier I have a source for you!!!!!!!

 

[yannifish]

What about using pressure locking baffles?
I just need acrylic...

 

[2quills]

Originally Posted by acrylic51
http:///forum/post/3288648
Nope.....That build process or style has been done alot, with ill affects....Again I think the problem really arises from improper cutting of baffles( cutting them to tight), to thin of material....(think about it water pressure will be about even on both sides in most cases), and with proper prep work (roughing up material edge where it will be siliconed) you shouldn't/wouldn't have any issues.....Again if you go this route why opt for flimsy material....I know, I know I over build/overkill, but I don't worry about anything exploding......If getting material is an issue, there are several places online that can cut/and ship, and as I had offered you earlier I have a source for you!!!!!!!
What do you recommend, Shaw...the polycast material?
I've seen a few places online that will cut it and ship it to you Yanni, I think it's really all a mattter of personal preference. Both glass or acrylic will work by following the tips that we've all shared. I've shared a couple of emails with Marc from meleves reef and he agrees both are doable in a glass sump with these ideas that we've expressed. I say go with what you really want to do, it will be good experience either way. I've done a fair amount of searching into both now and if cheaper is what you are looking for than I think you will find glass is the one. 1/4" glass isn't as fragile as you might think, I doubt you'll crack it unless you drop it somehow on accident.

 

[acrylic51]

PolyCast, Spartech are my personal choices to use......Spartech is easier for me to get my hands on within 10 minute drive, but either of the 2 are opt for actual tank building.....but for baffles, you could use another brand of cast material.....extruded will absorb a little more. I can't argue with Marc Corey!!!!!!!! He knows his stuff......I just find it easier to work acrylic, only because if the cuts of glass are off, trying to take alittle off of glass would be alot harder than running the acrylic through the jointer or router......Just easier IMO to fit than glass. Look at how overflow boxes are made and material size used inside premade tanks? Not super thick, and they hold up just fine and seal to the glass tank.......