sump/fuge question

[thirty6]

Its been over 10 years but i am getting ready to set up another tank. the size is up in the air still, but will be 48" long as i will be placing it in the wall of my basement. the opening was just finished so im almost ready to go. For now the plan is to purchase a 120 (48x24x24) and have it set up with fowlr, skimmer, live rock, dsb, powerheads, heaters, and such.
my biggest question still lies with filtration. If i purchase a drilled tank, i am not too sure how the sump gets set up and what would happen in a power outage. the more threads i read on this topic, the more confused i seem to be. i guess im complicating it in someway. the platform or stand will be open and no frills since it wont be visible so sump size is not an issue. OR do i go with a non drilled, hob type filter and skimmer set up?
as for a fish list i havent really come up with one yet, i guess it will vary depending on the size tank i get. i would love a naso tang, but 48" not quite long enough or so i have read many times. maybe include a school of anthias or other schooling fish, a ln hawk fish. dunno im open to some ideas. the idea of low light corals is appealing too. i have slowly been buying some things i need for the set up, and a 48" lunar combo coralife light was one of the first things i bought. an upgrade on llights is out of question for awhile. thanks for all you help and suggestions- joe

 

[thirty6]

any insight? also is a uv light a must?

 

[cdangel0]

I can't help too much with setting the sum up, I bought my tank pre-drilled and all plumbing already hooked up inside, all I had to do was connect the drain hose to the wet/dry inlet and the return hose accordingly.
I don't think a power outtage would be a concern (assuming you're worried about overflow) I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong, but with the filter being gravity fed, I do not believe you would really run the risk of overflowing the sump. I've had mine unplugged for lengths of time and the water does rise a bit, but nowhere near overflowing the box.
If you're not putting corals in I definitely like the UV sterilizer. IMO it not only helps control Ich, but keeps algae blooms down, and keeps my water crystal clear. I keep some soft corals in mine and they seem to do fine w/ the UV, but others have advised against it b/c it will kill off all the little stuff corals need to survive.
Hope this helps.

 

[thirty6]

thanks, my concern would be for a small flood. anyone else have any ideas?

 

[mandarin w]

It would be best to set up a sump with the tank, so get a drilled.
I am not exactly sure I understand what your question is, but I will give it a shot.
If you are asking what would happen if the power goes out with a drilled tank? It sould like your main concern is the pump stopping and the back syphin back into your sump and overflowing, flooding your room.
The answer is to drill a small hole in the return line just under the waterline in the tank. This way when the power goes out, and the line starts to back syphin, once the water get low enough to reach the hole in the return line the air will break the syphin and the back flow stops.

(sorry for the bad drawing, but I hope you get the idea.
Now how set up your sump so you know how much water you can safely put in, so the tank doesn't over flow it during a poweroutage is:
Fill your tank up the where you drilled your hole in your return.
Next, fill your sump all the way to the top. Make sure everything is ready to go. Start up your pumps. When these start up they will pump the water from the sump to the tank.
Wait about a minute or two, make sure everything is running smoothly. Once you know everything is running right, look at the water level in the sump. It should have gone down quite a bit. This level is your "MAXIMUM FILL LEVEL" you do not want to fill your sump higher than that. Most people will take a marker or a piece of tape and put it about 1/2 inch below that water level just to be safe to mark it for future reference. That way if the power goes out, you have to turn stuff off for maintaince, your sump should not overflow. Make sure you mark you level so you will know your safe zone.
If you are wondering about the sump. Alot of hobbist are useing live rock and sand in the sump with micro alge to keep things stabble. It is just extra buffer zone to help take care of levels for the tank. A HOB could never do what the sump does. You can also keep your skimmer in there. If you are wondering how to set up a sump, there are several different ways, if is more a matter of preference.
This is how I set my sump up, I think it works great.

I have the water inter the sump, it goes thru the skimmer first. Then it goes over the first baffle and down thru a couple filter pads that I wrap around eqqcrate to hold it in place, I set these on little ledges that I placed inside this baffle area.
NOTE: These filter pads get change every week with your water change. If you don't keep them clean they will start to raise your nitrates. The purpose of these is to catch the small particals of food and waste. As they get full of the junk and the bacteria grows if not changed they will start to release it back into the tank.
Then the water goes back up and over the second baffle in the refuge area, I keep my extra live rock, sand and micro alge here. this is also a great place for pod population. then it goes around the last set of baffle to the returen area. If you are going to use an internal pump you can put it in here. If you are going to use an external pump. then you would want to have that end of the sump drilled and add a buld head there to hook up your pump. Make sure the hole is drill no closer that 2 inches from the side or bottom of the tank. The water goes thru the return pump back up the the tank.
Just need to use a little light over the fuge area. Alot of people just get one of those clip on lights, but if you have a small enough light that will fit over that area that will be fine.
If you are concerned about the light getting knocked into the sump place eggcrate over that area of the sump and place the llight on that. it will be fine.

 

[thirty6]

thank for the answer and the drawings. i think im starting to get it. what woudl be benefit of having pump on outside of sump instead of inside?
if i went outside pump, im assuming they sell predrilled sumps designed for that function?

 

[mandarin w]

It is more of a question of room in the sump or room in the stand. If you don't think you have as much room in the sump and you would like, use an external pump. If you find something that is very long, almost as long a the tank itself, then there usally isn't room between the sump and the stand for a pump, that is when we use an internal.
As far as sumps go, you don't have to buy a "Sump" you can use a old tank, alot of us use 30 longs, 20 longs, 40 or 50 breeders. I used an old 75 gallon for my 180. The only real issue is to look at the height of the tank and the hieght of the stand. Are you going to be able to manuver yourself into and under there to pull out your pump to do your maintaince on it. My 75 is sort of tall for my situation, so it is a tight squeeze for me. It doesn't help to be older, and have a hard time getting down that low

But with you planning on a 120, I would go with about a 50 breeder or there about. something only about 18inch deep unless you plan on putting your tank up a bit higher,
When you start to plumb you tank you could go soft, that is just hoses for the bulkheads to the sump, or go PVC. I went for the soft plumb. This old lady had never done anything like that before and I was on my own. I thought it would be easier. But if you have a clue as to what you are doing when I comes to PVC, I would use that, just do a dry hook up first. before glue any of the pieces together. Also remember to put a union before the return pump. If that was to ever go out on you, it is a lot easier to just unscrew it and take it off and replace it, than to do a whole new plumbing job. Also put shut off valves on each of your lines return and the intake. This way you can regulate how much flow you have going which way.

 

[thirty6]

great info - excuse my ingnorance. by union are you refering to a connection that can be easily replaced in sections as oppossed to the entire plumbing job? thats how i understood it, just wanted to make sure

 

[mandarin w]

yes sir e

 

[mandarin w]

Oh, I wanted to say Good Luck, anymore questions, we will be here.

 

[thirty6]

thanks i appreciate it. i am kinda torn on what tank to get. there is a 120 for sale here, but its easily a three hour ride each way. then i was considering glass cages, but read a brutal string of posts just now- thats out, and am considering acrylic maybe???? but would have no idea where to even get an acrylic set up

 

[mandarin w]

How much is the tank that is 3 hours away. what all does it include. I have also heard a lot of trash talk about glass cages, but then I have heard good things. The biggest complaint I've heard about G.C. is their work with the silicone is sloppy. Now I would definatlly consider them for you sump. Then you can get just what you need. If the tank that is in your area isn't to bad of a deal. Then I would consider a road trip. Also check Craigs list, the major aution sites, sometime you can find great deals

 

[puffylvr]

the easiest way to set up 120 gal with unlimited space is as follows.
use a reef ready tank that has (mega flow overflow boxes)
use the matching megaflow drain and return plumbing kits
(they stop backflow)
find a cheap used tank for a sump for this a 40 gal or larger is best
use a filter sock to plumb both drains into the sump
you will need at least a mag 1200 gph pump for returning water to tank
find a 30 gal or less tank (cheap) drilled in the back or have it drilled
locate this above your sump and make it a refugium all you will need for this is a rio 600 pump to return water into it
email me for more detailed expl. fishtales06@aol.com
i am located in pennsylvania

 

[thirty6]

so what your suggesting is display tank, a sump 40g or more, and another tank as a refugium? would i be able to make a sump fuge in one large tank? is there a benefit either way? also im not too sure i know what afiltersock is?

 

[grubsnaek]

i have a 55 gallon sump on my 125 DT. i have the fuge in the middle of the sump. so yes it can be all in one.

 

[thirty6]

i like the idea of a 55 underneath the display tank, does that need to be drilled tank also or not as important.? did you section your 55g sump off with acrylic on the inside? guessing three different chambers or sections or just two?

 

[mandarin w]

That is how I originally explained it to you. You can have a fuge in your sump. That is what is in the picture. the area with the live rock is your fuge. Some people like to use two separate tanks, It involves alot of plumbing and "T" splits, you do not need to worry about that for now. You don't need to go and get all confussed again.
You can use a mag 12 for your return pump. Have you givin any thought as to which skimmer you want to get. The ASM's are a good skimmer for the money. For a 120 you could use a G-3. Most of those come with a pump when you purchase them.
Since you want to do a "Fish Only" you can get away with useing regular floresent lights like the ones that normally come with the fish tanks when your buy them. If you decide you want to get any corals, those light won't do you any good.
With a tank of that volume, you might consider getting an RO/DI unit. It will save you a lot of time and money in the long run. They are usally about $120. on the aution sites, that is for a 6 stage with 2 DI. about 100 gallons a day. I would not do any ro unit that make more than that. Lets just do this one step at a time. If you rush around you end up spending money on a lot of things you decide you wont need or use later. Find the tank you want.Check all the different sites. autions, classified section here, craigs list. There are bound to be some great deals in you area.

 

[thirty6]

i took your advice on looking for tank first. still deciding on the road trip, its 300- for tank with overflow, all the plumbing, sump, and a stand (wouldnt need that part). so i think im leaning toward the road trip. i may not use the sump, and go with a 55g i found on craiglist. thanks for all your help, i will be sure and throw some more questions at you as soon as i get going.
as far as skimmer goes, how much does that model go for?

 

[mandarin w]

I am not quit sure, I got the AGM G4plus, mine was about $425. But skimmer and lights(if you go reef) are two of your biggest expenses during set up. It is best not to go for the cheapest skimmer you can find. The ASM is infact one of the inexpessive top end skimmers you can get. There are skimmers out there that can cost $500 - $900. But once again you can search the classified sites and autions. You might just post an add your self. "Looking for a top notch skimmer for a XX gallon tank, if you have something you are wanting to sell, please let me
know" Usally someone has something nice. You would not beleive the number of people in the hobby that are just as addited on the equipment as the fish, and will buy high end equipment just to check it out, and then it is off to the next new thing.

 

[thirty6]

mandarin w, solid advice again thanks.
do i need a drilled tank for use as a sump/fuge? i will hopefully be buying a used tank from someone on these boards and would like to have as much as possible, kinda stockpile equipment i guess.