sump pumps , do they fail?

[blizz75]

Im setting up a 75g, well i have been for a month now

anyway im getting to the sump and this will be my first. my question is do these things every just fail and flood your house?? is there a way to prevent this? and any help on what kind or size i need? i dont really want to buy and overflow so the smaller the better because ill be hiding it behind rocks ( the overflow pump) thanks for the help and please dont think im an idiot!

 

[jojo_b]

I'm not sure what you plan your set-up to look like, but mine is put together so that if the pump fails then there won't be any extra water on the floor. The overflow runs by gravity, there is only the one pump on the return, and the sump isn't full to the point that another 10g would cause flooding.
Do you have a schematic?
Btw, I have a 75g display tank, with a 55g sump/fuge.

 

[blizz75]

what if ur return fails, gravity does not stop and ur sump will overflow?? dont know what a schematic is? i have not purchased any pumps or other parts yetif that answers it,.. and if u dont mind how much was ur overflow? thanks

 

[djm]

If I understand you correctly, you are planning on using a pump to move water from your tank to your sump. That is such a bad idea on so many levels that is impossible to list them all and still be brief. I wouldn't take such a huge risk. ALL mechanical equipment will eventually fail- some sooner than later.
On the bright side, my return pump has been the most reliable piece of equipment in my system. I use an Eheim 1250 and it has been running for over 15 years with ZERO maintenance. I have never touched it even once for any reason.
One of the biggest problems with your idea (and there are several) is that if your electricity ever goes out, there is no way to stop that kind of system from syphoning every drop of water out of your tank until it is below the level of the pump inside your tank.
The bottom line is that using a pump inside your tank towards your sump is a very bad idea.

 

[pallan]

agreed do not use a pump to pump water from the tank to the sump.
much easier and safer to use an overflow that way the water will only drain so far then it has to stop due to the design of an overflow.
if your return pump fails water will flow through the overflo only to the depth of the teeth then it will stop. if you have it set up right you should have enough space in your sump to accomodate the extra water.
if your siphon fails then your return pump will pump water from your sump until it overflows your tank, for this reason i recommend a small return pump area in a sump so that if siphon fails it will pump that small area dry and then at worst burn out the pump and not overflow the tank.
what ever you do make sure to put a small hole right below the water line of your return line in the tank this will make it so a back siphon does not develop and also attempt to flood your sump.
look in the diy forum Squidd has some nice plumbing threads in there and designs for sumps.
Good luck

 

[blizz75]

ok i understand completely and this is why i asked because that is what i was worried about so it looks like its gonna be an overflow. how do i match a pump with an overflow if i dont know how fast it sucks water over? and can u explain the seperation in sumps are used for? baffles are they? sorry to sound stupid but ive ran 4-5 nano's and never needed a sump. but heres another question if the power goes out then wont my return stop and my overflow still suck water out to a certain point?overflowing my sump? u said i would have enough room but i have H.O.B. equipment and need a high water level. last one what is a good sized, for a 75g thats not going to put a LOT of weight on the floor? sorry again for the Q's but im lost!

 

[jessecnc]

Do a search for "plumbing 101". It's a long thread, but well worth it! It should explain most of the issues you have questions about. For a summary, check out this link:
http://dslinux.dyndns.org/~denise/aq...tureindex.html

 

[blizz75]

thanks for the link, it looks very helpful

 

[adamc1303]

Your overflow box only gets about 1 inch worth of water from under the water level to the surface of the water level whn the pump is on. On that tank it shouldn't equal more than 7 gallons of water. What you want to do is decide how much turn around you want in the tank (how many times per hour do you want all the water in the tank to be filtred). Once you decide on an overflow box tell us how many GPH it is rated for and then we can match a pump to it.
However your return line will probably be 4 inches below the water level in the tank. So when the pump turns off it will automaticaly back siphon. what you want to do is make a hole in the return line rite above or even half way at the top of the surface of the water. When it begins to back siphon in a power out, the hole will suck in some air and break the siphon immedietly. You also want have at least 5 inches of room in your sump for water to fill up to once the power goes up than your safe!
hope this helps

 

[blizz75]

i fully understand the return and the hole and such thanks i just have to decide on a good sized overflow and pump, any suggestion gph wise? and here is the setup im plannin at does it need the 2 extra baffles after the first one i put in there? and whats a good sized (gallon wise) tank for the sump. oh and if ur gonna ask im not doing a fuge cause i suck with plants lighting and all that! haha

 

[chris57]

i don't use any pumps any more unless its on the filter or skimmer instead i use powerful fans. which simulates waves and ocean curent

 

[adamc1303]

If your doing a FOWLR then you can go with an overflow rated at 600GPH and then run a MAG 9.5. If you'r doing a reef you can do the same and add some powerheads, or you can go with a 1200 GPH overflow box with a MAG 12 and two returns, or for an awesome reef and lots of movement I would go with MAG 18 and 3 returns! The 3 return option will be allot of turnover.

 

[adamc1303]

Originally Posted by blizz75
i fully understand the return and the hole and such thanks i just have to decide on a good sized overflow and pump, any suggestion gph wise? and here is the setup im plannin at does it need the 2 extra baffles after the first one i put in there? and whats a good sized (gallon wise) tank for the sump. oh and if ur gonna ask im not doing a fuge cause i suck with plants lighting and all that! haha
As far as baffkes go I am not the guy that would have your answer because I never made d DIY sump although I should have.

 

[blizz75]

alright thanks ill look into the baffles myself

 

[cgrant]

make sure your return lines are set so when/if the power goes out or a pump fails that the water wont backflush into your sump from the return lines to the tank.
your overflow will stop once the water level hits a low, its your return lines into your display tank you have to worry about, I have the line-loc style and have the split off like a Y, top one is just below the water line incase something happens. Kinda hard to tell from the pic but one is just below the water line and the other is pointed toward the lower middle of the tank
Even if you dont have built in overflows you can still do something like this.
pic included so i dont confuse anyone with my rambling!

my porcy always does this...what a ham!

 

[blizz75]

ive looked at prices and am not going to do a sump, its gonna cost like $250 for an overflow, pump and tank, i cant do that ill just do HOB sorry for the waste of time and i appreciate your trying to help!

 

[djm]

You didn't waste anyone's time by asking a question. By asking it, you saved yourself a potentially HUGE headache.
You were also able to figure out for yourself what system will work best within your budget by the responses you got.
You could have gone the route that so many others do- "They don't know what they are talking about and I'm going to try my idea anyway.."
I wish you nothing but success with you new 75, Blizz! Never be afraid to ask a question.

 

[adamc1303]

Why don't you try to look in ther classifieds section for some used stuff. Whn I purchased my tank I got everything brand new from my LFS. Now I only but stuff from people on this forum or auction sited you can get things for less than half the price!