Sump questions
- Thread starter saltyfish
- Start date
broomer5
Active Member
Many people feel that the benefits of having a sump are;
1) Increases your total water in the system.
2) Allows you a place out of view to put heaters, protein skimmers, filter media, calcium reactors, dosing systems and any other equipment.
3) Provides easy access to your water - nice when doing water changes, dosing additives, testing water, etc.
4) Normally increases turnover of tank water, and may help aerate by pulling water from the top few inches of the display tank and moving water across the overflow, down the drain, through the sump ( sections ) and back up through the return/pump and spraybar outlet.
5) Makes it easier to connect other systems into the display tank - such as a refugium.
You do not NEED a sump on any tank set up.
Having any sized tank with a sump is a good idea in my opinion - bigger the better in most every case.
Sumps are not tricky to use - the overflow and return pump is the most difficult for some to understand, and are normally the most expensive part of the system.
A drilled tank is the preferred way to go by most, although many folks have external overflows that work well too.
You can purchase elaborate and expensive sumps, or you can cut some costs by using less expensive containers and doing much of the work yourself.
Personally - I've run tanks with and without a sump. I like them a lot and would not consider setting up a tank without one.
Are you looking into setting one up on your tank professer ?
1) Increases your total water in the system.
2) Allows you a place out of view to put heaters, protein skimmers, filter media, calcium reactors, dosing systems and any other equipment.
3) Provides easy access to your water - nice when doing water changes, dosing additives, testing water, etc.
4) Normally increases turnover of tank water, and may help aerate by pulling water from the top few inches of the display tank and moving water across the overflow, down the drain, through the sump ( sections ) and back up through the return/pump and spraybar outlet.
5) Makes it easier to connect other systems into the display tank - such as a refugium.
You do not NEED a sump on any tank set up.
Having any sized tank with a sump is a good idea in my opinion - bigger the better in most every case.
Sumps are not tricky to use - the overflow and return pump is the most difficult for some to understand, and are normally the most expensive part of the system.
A drilled tank is the preferred way to go by most, although many folks have external overflows that work well too.
You can purchase elaborate and expensive sumps, or you can cut some costs by using less expensive containers and doing much of the work yourself.
Personally - I've run tanks with and without a sump. I like them a lot and would not consider setting up a tank without one.
Are you looking into setting one up on your tank professer ?
saltyfish
Member
Thak you boomer and yes i am thinking about doing one. of course one question leads to others so.
What is a refugium? Can you give me a list of parts to build one and some instruction? and if you put the heater and filters in the sump does it really go as good a job cleaning the water and removing dabre?
What is a refugium? Can you give me a list of parts to build one and some instruction? and if you put the heater and filters in the sump does it really go as good a job cleaning the water and removing dabre?
joerdie
Member
there is a thread currently running on the dyi board that explaines the best way i think there is to build your own and if thats not enough info. when i built my first one i ran a search of old threads and they where very informative. the current thread is. wet/dry diy info request
broomer5
Active Member
Okay professer,
Generally a refugium can be looked at as a separate area of the saltwater tank system, that is isolated from the main display tank.
This area allows plants and living creatures to grow and reproduce without the risk of being eaten or destroyed by the main inhabitants of the display tank.
A true refugium normally implies a viewable area such as a smaller tank, that's connected into the main tank water system much like a sump is, that you would keep these plants and creatures.
In this hobby it's also understood to be a place to grow macro algae such as caulerpa, a sandbed to grow pods and worms and such, maybe contain some live rock, or a combination of all of the above.
A deep living sandbed in the refugium may also provide a place for anaerobic bacteria to consume excess nitrate, otherwise known as "denitrification". Same concept as having a deep sandbed in the display tank - but some choose to just do this in the refugium. Naturally some folks have a deep sand bed (DSB) in both the main display tank and the refugium.
Lower nitrates leads to better overall water quality and less chance for nuisance algae in the main tank.
People set up a refugium for lots of different reasons, but I would say the most popular reasons are for nitrate reduction as mentioned, and to grow pods and other small critters.
As the fish/inverts are fed and excrete wastes in the main tank, eventually in most every case, the tank will have a rise in nitrates. In addition to having the DSB and live rock in the refugium, the macro algae or caulerpa placed in the refugium will use this nitrate ( and phosphate ) as it grows. That's what most living plants do. They use this stuff as "fertilizer", and along with having light, water and carbon dioxide .... remove the nutrients by taking them up in their growing plant tissue, and give off oxygen gas as a product of photosynthesis.
Lowering the carbon dioxide or CO2 in the tank water can also help to prevent the pH of the tankwater from dropping so much over time, and helps to stabalize other chemical reactions that typically occur in everyone's tanks.
Adding O2 oxygen is good for the fish, inverts and bacteria as I'm sure you know.
As they grow - the hobbyist "harvests" or removes some of this algae now and then, which "removes" the nitrates and phosphates from the water system.
It's what many refer to as "nutrient export."
Just think of a refugium as a little tank or container, that shares the water with the main tank, but does not allow any fish or other predators a chance enter it. It's a protected zone, where you can grow the "good" algae, and the copepods, amphipods, worms and other sandbed critters can grow with out getting munched up by the fish. Some of these little critters make their way to the main display tank, and help to sustain the population in it's sandbed.
Of course some of them are not so lucky, and get eaten by the fish anyways - which ain't so bad if your the fish
If you really are serious about setting up a sump and refugium, we would need more information regarding your current set up, size of tank, type of existing filtration, free area under the tank stand, whether you want to "purchase" everything, or if you plan to DIY do it yourself.
Please provide as much info on your tank and current set up as you can, and if you are comfortable doing some of the work yourself.
From there we can start laying out a plan.
Generally a refugium can be looked at as a separate area of the saltwater tank system, that is isolated from the main display tank.
This area allows plants and living creatures to grow and reproduce without the risk of being eaten or destroyed by the main inhabitants of the display tank.
A true refugium normally implies a viewable area such as a smaller tank, that's connected into the main tank water system much like a sump is, that you would keep these plants and creatures.
In this hobby it's also understood to be a place to grow macro algae such as caulerpa, a sandbed to grow pods and worms and such, maybe contain some live rock, or a combination of all of the above.
A deep living sandbed in the refugium may also provide a place for anaerobic bacteria to consume excess nitrate, otherwise known as "denitrification". Same concept as having a deep sandbed in the display tank - but some choose to just do this in the refugium. Naturally some folks have a deep sand bed (DSB) in both the main display tank and the refugium.
Lower nitrates leads to better overall water quality and less chance for nuisance algae in the main tank.
People set up a refugium for lots of different reasons, but I would say the most popular reasons are for nitrate reduction as mentioned, and to grow pods and other small critters.
As the fish/inverts are fed and excrete wastes in the main tank, eventually in most every case, the tank will have a rise in nitrates. In addition to having the DSB and live rock in the refugium, the macro algae or caulerpa placed in the refugium will use this nitrate ( and phosphate ) as it grows. That's what most living plants do. They use this stuff as "fertilizer", and along with having light, water and carbon dioxide .... remove the nutrients by taking them up in their growing plant tissue, and give off oxygen gas as a product of photosynthesis.
Lowering the carbon dioxide or CO2 in the tank water can also help to prevent the pH of the tankwater from dropping so much over time, and helps to stabalize other chemical reactions that typically occur in everyone's tanks.
Adding O2 oxygen is good for the fish, inverts and bacteria as I'm sure you know.
As they grow - the hobbyist "harvests" or removes some of this algae now and then, which "removes" the nitrates and phosphates from the water system.
It's what many refer to as "nutrient export."
Just think of a refugium as a little tank or container, that shares the water with the main tank, but does not allow any fish or other predators a chance enter it. It's a protected zone, where you can grow the "good" algae, and the copepods, amphipods, worms and other sandbed critters can grow with out getting munched up by the fish. Some of these little critters make their way to the main display tank, and help to sustain the population in it's sandbed.
Of course some of them are not so lucky, and get eaten by the fish anyways - which ain't so bad if your the fish
If you really are serious about setting up a sump and refugium, we would need more information regarding your current set up, size of tank, type of existing filtration, free area under the tank stand, whether you want to "purchase" everything, or if you plan to DIY do it yourself.
Please provide as much info on your tank and current set up as you can, and if you are comfortable doing some of the work yourself.
From there we can start laying out a plan.
me-n-my-fish
Member
I was thinking about doing a refguim myself a while back. Thanks, to Broomer5 and everybody on this board, I did, and I am happy I did. I will explain what I have, and try to get a pic for a later.
On my 55 gal display, I put an overflow box, this I ran down to my 20 gal long. In my 20 I put a small baffle about an 2 inches tall, all the way to the left side. Then on the right, I put a baffle that left about 1 inch of space from the top. I put my dsb in this. My Skimmer and Mag pump side on the other side of the baffle. Kinda Like this
" < From main Tank
" "<Back to
" " Main Tank
|" Water Level "|
|"
[hr]
| "| Skimmer
|" | "| And Mag
|" |
[hr]
"|<Sit here
|" Sea Grapes | "| |" |.............................| "|
|"_|_______DSB___________________|_____"|
I did all the partions with plexeglass, and All Glass Silicone. I let the sand bed sit and run for about a month before I added the greens. Once I added the greens, my nitrites dropped off the map, and my greens are growing like crazy. When you plan your refguim/Sump, You will need to make a Siphon break, small hole in the pipe just above water line in your main tank, or use a check valve. I had a pcv check valve, but it took away flow from my mag pump, so I took it out and put a siphon break in it. I have the return on my sump running along the bottom back of my main tank, with some adjustable nozzels. If I did not have a break on it, when the power cut off, I would have my hole water supply on the floor. I hoped this helped to send you in the direction of wanting one. I was like you, "Why mess with a good thing?", Well, it will only make a good thing better. I will try to get a pic up some time this weekend. Feel free to ask anything, and we will help!!
On my 55 gal display, I put an overflow box, this I ran down to my 20 gal long. In my 20 I put a small baffle about an 2 inches tall, all the way to the left side. Then on the right, I put a baffle that left about 1 inch of space from the top. I put my dsb in this. My Skimmer and Mag pump side on the other side of the baffle. Kinda Like this
" < From main Tank
" "<Back to
" " Main Tank
|" Water Level "|
|"
[hr]
| "| Skimmer
|" | "| And Mag
|" |
[hr]
"|<Sit here
|" Sea Grapes | "| |" |.............................| "|
|"_|_______DSB___________________|_____"|
I did all the partions with plexeglass, and All Glass Silicone. I let the sand bed sit and run for about a month before I added the greens. Once I added the greens, my nitrites dropped off the map, and my greens are growing like crazy. When you plan your refguim/Sump, You will need to make a Siphon break, small hole in the pipe just above water line in your main tank, or use a check valve. I had a pcv check valve, but it took away flow from my mag pump, so I took it out and put a siphon break in it. I have the return on my sump running along the bottom back of my main tank, with some adjustable nozzels. If I did not have a break on it, when the power cut off, I would have my hole water supply on the floor. I hoped this helped to send you in the direction of wanting one. I was like you, "Why mess with a good thing?", Well, it will only make a good thing better. I will try to get a pic up some time this weekend. Feel free to ask anything, and we will help!!
me-n-my-fish
Member
Well shoot, my crude drawing got messed up. I will post a pic later...sorry
me-n-my-fish
Member
not sure if you wanted mine or broomer's. Mine is
k_lyall@bellsouth.net
Drop me an email, and I will send ya these darn pics I am trying to get up.
k_lyall@bellsouth.net
Drop me an email, and I will send ya these darn pics I am trying to get up.