sump/refugium problems

keisersosei

keisersosei

Member
I just got back from Lowes with everything I need to make my sump and refugium. The only problem is the Rubbermaid totes are too big to fit under the tank (as I was afraid they would be). I got the smallest ones (10 and 18 gallons) but they are still too big. The dimensions are as follows:
18" from front of stand to wall
11" depth of stand, giving 7" from back of stand to wall
48" length of stand
21" height of stand
10" doors (x2)
12" between each 4" vertical support at back of stand
So, it looks like I need to get two tall and narrow containers but I don't know if this is okay to do. Also the trash cans I am looking at (small and narrow containers, if anyone has another suggestion I'm open) are fairly small -- the largest is 44 quarts (11 gallons) and I'm not sure if that one will fit. I know the easiest thing to do would be to relocate the sump and refugium but that's not really an option right now. Thanks a lot for your help.
 
G

glazer

Guest
Sounds like you're going to be on that never-ending search for the perfect size container....bummer, I feel your pain.
Don't think I can be much help on this other than offering something things that came to mind... first, beware of the trashcans. Alot of kitchen/bathroom trash cans are treated with antibacterial chemicals in the plastic. I was once told that "white" ones are not though... do not know how reliable that is. I use a white can for storing my RO water... is made by Prolon. Called the company and they said no antibacterial agents.
Another thought... instead of countless hours of searching and frustration. Perhaps you could just build plywood boxes of the max size you can fit through doors or whatever, THEN go back to Lowes, buy some 1/8" acrylic, cut the acrylic to needed dimensions to fit inside boxes and seal all the seams with silicone. Would be easier than trying to seal,paint and caulk I would think. I just don't think there is any ready built aquariums with the size/volume that you want that would fit, sooo why not make one or two... sort of.
I love puzzles and DIY challenges... if I think of any other brilliant ideas I'll let ya know.... lessin' you tell me to stop now!....lol
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
I too have been down this road keisersosei.
I have several spare Rubbermaid containers left over from my search to prove it.
There does seem to be a size that we need, that is right in the middle of what these folks manufacture.
I looked around a lot before finding what I needed, and had to change plans a little as I went.
Sounds like you have a 55 gallon tank, or close to it.
Most of the Rubbermaid and Sterilite containers were either a little too big, or not worth messing with.
I'll join glazer on this one too - if I think of something I'll let you know too.
 
keisersosei

keisersosei

Member
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my lack of forethought. I had never planned for a sump or a refugium but now have decided to build one. I have all the pipes ready to go. All I need now is an overflow and a powerhead and to figure out this small problem. Thanks for the input. The only thing I am worried about with the acrylic idea is the cost. Is acrylic expensive? Where would I find silicone (I'll ask you as the employees surely will not know).
 
G

glazer

Guest
keiser,
the acrylic is actually pretty cheap... go over to the section with replacement windows and they should have sheets of it, some 4'x4' stuff and prolly some assorted sizes of cutoffs.. I think a 4' by 4' piece of 1/8" is around 10-15 bucks...(guessing guessing)
Oh and while you are there... go over to the section with caulk. GE makes silicone... there is I and II, don't remember which one is the right one (sorry, helpful SOB aint I) but one will say "aquarium safe" on the tube, the other definitely says "not food safe", or you could go to an LFS and pay about three times the price for half the silicone.
Let us know how and what you end up doing... I am sure there is alot of people that would love the info.
 
keisersosei

keisersosei

Member
I am going to try the plywood/acrylic boxes idea. Here's my plan: The sump will be 19"x19"x15" giving me 12 gallons. The refugium will be 4 inches taller, allowing water to drain from it into the sump and giving me 16 gallons there. Quarter-inch plywood and eighth-inch acrylic should give me .375" walls. I will have to build the boxes inside the stand and they will take up basically the entire space under the tank. This just might work. Thanks a lot. I'll post my results after I'm finished, maybe with some pictures.
A couple more questions: Can I cut the acrylic with a regular skill saw or will that crack it easily? Do I need to use cement on the pipes or are they snug enough?
 
G

glazer

Guest
keiser,
I'm no master of the acrylic.... there is prolly better ways, but ways I have cut it
Circular saw: You need a very thin kerf blade, make sure the teeth of the blade are not offset, blade needs to be the kind where teeth are in alignment with each other (make sense?)
Actually, my cordless saw with a diamond blade worked great.
Make sure depth of cut is set to just a HAIR more than the thickness of plastic.
Bandsaw: Again no offset teeth, this worked really well.
Thin stuff like you are using: Cut like glass. There is a tool for like a buck99 that that scores the plastic with a V-shaped groove. Score the acrylic with this and a straight edge 2 or 3 times and then "snap" it at the score. Note: this worked for me but I would have to say only about 90% of the time, I had extra material so the 10% loss was only slightly aggravating...hehe
As far as your fittings... well 99% of the people here will tell you to cement them, it's good advice. I on the other hand am very much a tinkerer and am always wondering if it might work better "done THIS way instead" so a permanent bond always made me nervous. I have always just used silicone or rubber cement to connect my fittings... with some effort they can be pulled back apart and reconfigured if needed... Word of caution though, I haven't really dealt with ultra high flow rates or pumps with substantial pressures though so this has not been a prob for me.
Good luck on this one, would love to see the results.... although I have to admit, with your measurements given originally (space under stand) I have no idea how you are fitting something 19x19 under there *scratching head*....lol
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
If you still want to go with the garbage cans they actually should work fine. You can beef it up with 3/4" PVC around the top 1/3 to keep if from bowing.
 
keisersosei

keisersosei

Member
That should be 10", not 19". I wish it were 19" deep, then I wouldn't have this problem. I have thought of the scoring method of cutting acrylic but didn't know how well it would work. Would I need the wooden box as support or will the 1/8" acrylic be enough to support 19"x10"x19" of water? If not can I go up to 1/4" and remain relatively inexpensive?
Bang Guy: I would use trash cans but most are circular and my hang-on equipment would not hang on. And most trashcans that will fit inside the stand are too small to be of any good. (Unless 4-5 gallons isn't too small).
 
keisersosei

keisersosei

Member
Woo-hoo! I think I've got it. After sawing the handles off the Rubbermaids and moving the two center braces inward, the containers barely fit when turned widthwise. Now I need to put a 2x4 under the containers. Right now they are resting on the stand but there is space between the floor and the soon-to-be refugium/sump so the 2x4 will brace them. The containers are twisted just a bit. Will this harm anything when full of water? Should I brace the tops and if so, how? I'll fill them with tap water just to see. Also, how does a bulkhead go together? I need to drain from the refugium back to the sump but I don't know what pieces to get for the bulkhead. Thanks a lot for all of your help.
 
smalltimer

smalltimer

Member
Be careful putting a bulkhead in...........I got guy a lfs that uses all rubbermaids for sump under sales tanks and uses bulkheads to tie them together, make sure you silicone the s)** out of them. I have Rubbermaid sump but all hang on or in sump pumps. I have no holes in the container. As far as them twisting, I would see no prob if you do not put hole in them, but if you put hole, then bulk head, then seal then put in h2o at 8.xxx pounds per gallon, the twisting of them settling might take out your bulkhead seals......IMO
Good Luck:eek:
 
broomer5

broomer5

Active Member
If a bulkhead fitting is installed on the flat surface of a plastic container, the gasket is used, and the nut is fully tightened, it will seal.
If you torque or bend this flat area, or twist it as mentioned, then it may indeed leak.
Bulkhead fittings are designed to seal if installed correctly.
If you don't feel this is secure enough for your refugium to sump water flow - then using a hang on overflow is possible.
I chose to use the bulkheads.

 
slothy

slothy

Active Member
is there a depth these need to be ? i have about 11X19 box to work with under my tank. i found a rubbermaid container thats about 11 X 18 X 6" tall.. tall enough ? kinda fiqured dsb should be at least 4".. or would it be better to rig a acylic box up with in and out bulk heads ?
 
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