Sump/Refugium?

[aelene]

Okies, I have a question. I would like to build a sump/refugium for my 40 gallon tank. Here is a picture of the tank I have, and I have a 10 gallon (glass) that I want to try and put underneath the stand to make this sump/refugium.
So let me ask the first obvious question, wth is the difference between a sump and a refugium? If I can get this accomplished, how do I get a connection from the 10g tank to the 40g w/o drilling holes in the 40g tank?
I know nothing about the DIY stuff, my apologies for the strange questions... but thanks in advance for any advice! :cheer:

 

[ppm411]

You can use an overflow box instead of drilling your tank. Do a search in these forums and you'll find plenty of information. A refugium differs from a sump in that you can put live sand, live rock and macro algae to aid in converting nitrates into nitrogen gas.

 

[pfitz44]

HOB Overflow boxes is the easiest way to get it to a fuge/sump. You would then pipe to the fuge/sump. then have a pump diliver the water back to your DT
refugium-taken from teh word refuge, is used to store things that would reak havoc on your DT. i.e. DSB, Macroalgee, plants etc.
Sump- a place to store equipment and add total water volume to your tank

 

[azocean709]

Originally Posted by PFitz44
HOB Overflow boxes is the easiest way to get it to a fuge/sump. You would then pipe to the fuge/sump. then have a pump diliver the water back to your DT
refugium-taken from teh word refuge, is used to store things that would reak havoc on your DT. i.e. DSB, Macroalgee, plants etc.
Sump- a place to store equipment and add total water volume to your tank
I just have to fix this...the whole reak havoc thing....well maybe ...but a refugium is a Natural filter system, and a place for benifitial bacteria, and pod population to reproduce without being all eaten up . the macro algae such as Cheatomorph, caulerpa, and many others are placed in the fuge for aid in nitrate consumption. along with your DSB and LR .
The sump....just as PFitz44 said. its a place for your skimmer, heaters, ect. no sand, , i do have live rock and Cheato in my sump with my equip. i had nowhere else to put it...lol.
hope this helps...there are many threads and posts on this..do some research and you will find most of your questions. good luck!

 

[rhomer]

Just to a a little more clarity. A sump is generic term usually referred to simply as water storage that requires a pump to excavate the water. In aquarium terms a sump can be many things including a refugium ie. a refugium is always a sump but a sump isn't always a refugium.
The sump can be many things such as, a refugium, a wet/dry filter, a canister filter, or simple water storage for use with a skimmer. The good is that you can hide most of the equipment needed for your aqurium in the stand if a sump is used. You can have your heater, skimmer, calcium reactor, chiller, phosphate reactor, nitrate reactor, chemical filtration, etc... hidden below and leave more room for the inhabitents in the tank. A sump also helps oxyginate the water.
Rob

 

[aelene]

Ok, well what I am looking to do is definitely a refugium. I bought a spotted mandarin this weekend, he is in QT atm so I want to have the refugium built and going for his arrival into the main tank.
It's a 10 gallon and I have it below my tank. I like the idea of a DSB, and plenty of the good algae stuff for pods to hide in. I want to move my heater to it as well, and can I also move my skimmer to it and have it function the same as it would on the back of the tank?
What is the easiest way to accomplish a refugium? I don't need to section off any areas in it correct? And how will I establish the flow/return thing back to the main tank? This is my first DIY project so I have no freaking idea what I'm talking about

Anyone have advice on the simplest way to accompish this? Looking through old threads too, hopefully I'll find some good info.

 

[n_sarno]

I am looking to make one as well so any input anyone has will be helping me as well

 

[abcsnana]

While we are on sumps/refugiums, I have a question. I just bought a used 58 gl tank w/ a 29gl sump/refugium. But the thing is very noisy and bubbly as it drains from main tank to bottom tank.
The pump is not noisy - can barely hear it.
How can I change that?

 

[squidd]

Originally Posted by AzOcean709
I just have to fix this...the whole reak havoc thing....well maybe ...but a refugium is a Natural filter system, and a place for benifitial bacteria, and pod population to reproduce without being all eaten up . the macro algae such as Cheatomorph, caulerpa, and many others are placed in the fuge for aid in nitrate consumption. along with your DSB and LR .
The sump....just as PFitz44 said. its a place for your skimmer, heaters, ect. no sand, , i do have live rock and Cheato in my sump with my equip. i had nowhere else to put it...lol.
hope this helps...there are many threads and posts on this..do some research and you will find most of your questions. good luck!

Let's fine tune this just a little more...
That depends on the "Goal" of the "Fuge"...
"Fuge" being a generic term for a number of different types of supplemental chambers added to a tank system...
Sump= an additional chamber for increasing water volume and a place to put extraneous equipment out of the main tank (heaters, skimmers, pumps, etc...)
Refugium= a safe chamber or place free of "predators" for the propagation of micro flora and fauna .....(in this case a "pod" refugium could be a dark cryptic zone which would NOT "require" lighting)...if the "Goal" was to grow macros for feeding fish in a predator free environment lighting would be neccessary...
Algal Scrubber Filtration= Differs from fuge in that the main "Goal" is the forced propagation of Macros for the absorption and removal of malnutrients thru export or "harvesting" and would require significant lighting...(pod production ,if any, is a side benefit and not the main focus..)
Not all "Fuge's" are created equal nor are they able to do all things equally well...a "Goal" or purpose needs to be established and then the fuge/refugium/algal scrubber needs to be set up to meet those "requirements"...
Sizeing, Flow rates, lighting (amount and schedual), structure and inhabitants all play a significant role in setting up a successful "fuge"<<<generic term<<< to meet your "Goals"..

 

[squidd]

Haveing said that...
The 10 will make a nice "sump" for your equipment, but be too small to incorperate a fuge as well...
Suggest setting up as eficient sump and then "adding" seperate chamber for fuge...
Or start with larger tank under stand...

 

[aelene]

Do i really need a sump though? My only goal is to have a continuous food source for my spotted mandarin. Other than that, my tank seems to be doing fairly well. Do I have to make a sump in order to have refugium? I don't want a HOB fuge either btw, no room for it with both the filter and the skimmer already hanging there.
Maybe if it's not hard enough, I could do the sump as the 10g, move all the extra equipment there then have a HOB fuge. A sump is more difficult than a fuge though isn't it?

 

[waterpolo]

Originally Posted by Aelene
Do i really need a sump though? My only goal is to have a continuous food source for my spotted mandarin. Other than that, my tank seems to be doing fairly well. Do I have to make a sump in order to have refugium? I don't want a HOB fuge either btw, no room for it with both the filter and the skimmer already hanging there.
Maybe if it's not hard enough, I could do the sump as the 10g, move all the extra equipment there then have a HOB fuge. A sump is more difficult than a fuge though isn't it?

Well I already see a problem. How long has your tank been running for. Just because you want to get a refugium so your spotted mandarin can have an aquedate food source doesn't mean he will have it in time. I would never introduce a mandarin to a tank smaller than 55 gallons with atleast 75lbs of lr and also having ls.

 

[aelene]

Well, I have a 40g with about 50 lbs of live rock and all live sand. It's been running for 9 months now. I want to add a fuge so I know for a fact that he has a constant food source, I don't think that's bad reasoning. And he hasn't been introduced to the main tank yet, he's in isolation atm, I've only had him for two days.
And when I say it's my only goal, that's because my tank is already doing alright. My readings are great and my nitrates at the highest are 5ppm. Your approach has made me somewhat defensive, I apologize for that. However, I'm looking for assistance in DIY, not criticism. I still would love any help, mechanics and stuff like this isn't my forte.

 

[waterpolo]

Originally Posted by Aelene
Well, I have a 40g with about 50 lbs of live rock and all live sand. It's been running for 9 months now. I want to add a fuge so I know for a fact that he has a constant food source, I don't think that's bad reasoning. And he hasn't been introduced to the main tank yet, he's in isolation atm, I've only had him for two days.
And when I say it's my only goal, that's because my tank is already doing alright. My readings are great and my nitrates at the highest are 5ppm. Your approach has made me somewhat defensive, I apologize for that. However, I'm looking for assistance in DIY, not criticism. I still would love any help, mechanics and stuff like this isn't my forte.
No offense but good luck. MY friends have a 100 gallon tank with 110 lbs of lr and all livesand it has been up for 4 years and the tank thrives and they have tried to keep a mandarin 3 times but they all died.

 

[spafeature]

Does any one know of wet-dry/fuge combo?? I now have a fluval canister but want a fuge (mostly for macro-algae). Should I give up my fluval and go w/a sump---if so why? Can i just put a fuge under the tank---have my fluval feed to my fuge--my fuge to my tank--my tank to my fluval??? I have a hang on cpr protein skimmer i'm happy w/.

 

[squidd]

Originally Posted by spafeature
Does any one know of wet-dry/fuge combo??
Yeah, but the W/D is generally converted to , or at least serves the function of a sump...
I now have a fluval canister but want a fuge (mostly for macro-algae). Should I give up my fluval and go w/a sump---if so why?
Sump= an additional chamber for increasing water volume and a place to put extraneous equipment out of the main tank (heaters, skimmers, pumps, etc...)
The sump is the "area" or chamber that holds return pump...as the return pump cannot be placed "directly" in the fuge, in order to pump water, you will need a sump/chamber
Can i just put a fuge under the tank---have my fluval feed to my fuge--my fuge to my tank--my tank to my fluval???
The fluval will not pump "up hill" on it's own as decribed...and two pump systems do not work...
I have a hang on cpr protein skimmer i'm happy w/.
.

 

[spafeature]

Ok--so---
Ditch the canister--
Overflow into SUMP/Wet-Dry (which is now my filter (bio-noodle-carbon-etc)--have it feed into Fuge (LR, LS, Snails, Culp,etc...) & Feed back into my tank.
Is there one unit that does this?
I assume I can put heater in fuge section...

 

[rhomer]

Here is a pic of a design that I did for someone else asking the same questions:

 

[bob a.]

Arlene
Dont feel bad. There are lots of "experts" around here who will tell you you are doing everything wrong and put you on the defense. Sounds like your tank is going fine. Mandarins are tough though, they really like copeopods and you are right in thinking that something like a fuge will help to grow them. Problem is that they will take some time to grow and most of em will be staying down in the fuge not up in the display tank. Now if you run that light on a timer you can put him down there and hopefully he will find enough food to feed on. I have also seen copeopods sold in bottles at the lfs. You might want to look into that to see if you can get some growing soon. Good Luck.

 

[aelene]

Rhomer is that design for a sump and refugium? I'm going to go ahead and taken Squidd's advice and do a sump and refuge, but if he's right about the 10g only being enough for a sump (which i'm sure he is) then the refugium will have to be a HOB kind.
Also, with your design you have a skimmer in the middle section, can I use a HOB skimmer instead and achieve the same results?
Bob - thanks for the moral support :cheer: I am pretty worried about taking care of him, but I imagine I'm up against the same odds that everyone else is so I don't like feeling like I'm doing a diservice to the fish by having bought him. The tank they had him in at the store didn't even have any live rock, and his color is somewhat faded so I'm assuming his nutrition was on the fall from the minute I got him.
I did buy a bottle of pods yesterday (26 bucks! sweet pete), and I put a good chunk of live rock in his tank that has some hair algae on it. I will dose it up tonight, I'm hoping the hair algae will give them a little place to "congregate" so to speak. Other than that I'm feeding him mysis shrimp. I've gone to great lengths for my current fish and will do the same for this guy, so I'm hoping he's going to do well in the long run. We shall see..