Sump/Refugium

[mtsuguy]

So I've got everything on my tank set up the way I wanted it and the tank has cycled with LR. Really surprised as my Trite and Trate is at 0 and a week ago the Ammonia was at 8, I guess that cycle stuff really does work. I added 1 black and white damsel that has been in qt at my friends house for a month, he used the fish to cycle his tank and took him out after the cycle. I really like the fish, he seems to get lost in the 55 gallon tank though. I will probably add a blue damsel soon after I let one go thru qt. I have read a lot about sumps/refugiums on here and I eventually would like to keep a mandarin down the line (6-8 months) and from what I read it promotes a more stable environment for everything (also considering a flame angel or a coral beauty angel) and also a good place for copepods to live. Are sumps/refugiums a necessity if you want to keep a mandarin? I have 45 Lbs LR and 30 Lbs. base in the tank right now, hopefully in a few months all of it will be LR. If I do need to at a sump, can someone point me in the direction I need to go? I cannot drill this aquarium as it is already in use. Any advice would be great. Everyone on here as been a great help thus far and I appreciate all of your help!

 

[jpc763]

A couple of things...
First on the questions you asked.
You can add a sump and/or a fuge to your tank by putting an overflow box onto the tank, down to a sump and add a return pump to the sump to go back up to the tank. I have that exact design (I have a fuge) on my 55g. No drilled holes required.
Now, on the copepods. I am sure that the tank without a sump can provide a haven for copepods. my friend has a sump-less 55g and he has tons of the little guys. I have a fuge that is just starting to get a good sized pod populatin. My tank is only 6 months old and I could have kick started the pod population with a bag from this site.
Now on to your fish choices. If you have not been told yet, damsels are very aggressive fish. There are countless horror stories on this site (search Damsel) about people trying to get rid of one's that are killing ALL of their other fish (regardless of size). You may really want to reconsider the one you already have and seriously consider not getting the second. You will be greatly limited in your fish choices if you keep damsels.
Good luck. John

 

[mtsuguy]

How would I prevent the sump from overflowing in the event that the pump stopped working or the power went out?

 

[itom37]

For a non-drilled tank this is done by two main mechanisms: first, a HOB overflow box prevents excess water from being siphoned out in the event of a pump shut-off. They work very similarly to in-tank overflows, allowing only a few gallons (max) of water to overflow if there is no return. Another issue that I am very glad I figured out when doing failure testing on my set up (very similar to what you're proposing, i think) is that you must introduce break-siphon drill holes in your return pump. If you don't, if the pump shuts off the return tube is immediately converted into a siphon and this could be a disaster. All you need to do is drill a couple of small (few mm) holes just below the level of the water on your return line. The pump shuts off and sucks air instead of water, no siphon, no disaster. I believe you can also get one way valves to prevent this problem... this way is cheap and easy, but either way do consider this issue.
If the siphon from your overflow breaks, the return chamber of your sump will soon run dry. Most sumps are set up so only a small amount of water would collect in the return chamber (mine is less than a gallon), so all you need to do is ensure that the amount that would be returned is less than would overflow your tank. The issue that remains with my setup, which is pretty much incapable of overflowing (that's called hubris, and it's not recommended either. knock on wood), is that if the siphon breaks the pump will run with no water. You can get shut off floats for this, but I don't have one.
I hope some of that helps. I just added a sump/refuge to my 55 gallon (undrilled). Keep the questions coming (including a site that sells sump/refuge packages for a very reasonable price, when you're in the market).
Cheers!

 

[mtsuguy]

Well if I'm going to get one it will have to be this week becuase I will be living on savings and student loans after friday and I dont want to dip into those funds for this

. I understand that cpr has a good hob refugium, would that be ok for my tank? It seems easy and almost no threats of overflowing, its a little expensive though, expecially for that light, and what size would I need. I am guessing the bigger the better is the same with that as it is for most anything in this hobby

. Any thoughs on the subject?

 

[itom37]

I don't know much about HOB refuges except that they're pretty expensive. If you go the traditional route you get a sump as well, which is great for putting equipment in. I didn't think I minded all of the HOB stuff until I was rid of it. It looks much nicer. Anyway, the HOBs I have seen were like 200. My sump/refuge including overflow box, great skimmer with pump, return pump, refuge light, and all hoses necessary was like 260.
Another note on pods: I had bazillions of the things when my fish were in QT for ich. I added my fish and the next day I could not find one. Obviously there are some there, but other fish like pods too. If your dream is a mandarin, I think you should limit other fish that might eat them (and do ditch the damsels), and have your LFS wait until they get one that is eating prepared foods and hold it for you. This way you will be able to supplement its diet if it's not getting enough pods. I'm not comfortable adding a mandarin that won't eat any frozen food until I am able to see my pods again, which I'm not positive will happen even with the fuge.

 

[mtsuguy]

I have a coralife 65g skimmer that is putting a ton of micro bubbles into my tank, If I did do a sump set up would that take care of my problem?

 

[jpc763]

Only if you move the coralife into the sump. By the way, you would need a fuge to grow pods, not just a sump.
Here is a picture of my return system that I built off parts from Home Depot.

My return pump is a QuietOne 3000 that pumps about 600gph. As mentioned above, be sure to drill a siphon break hole in the return system at or below the water line.

 

[mtsuguy]

Is there anywhere I can find a place for a complete parts list that I would need along with a diagram on how to hook it up on here? I have found a ton of sump/fuge setups with pics ans such but non with the parts list and how to hook it up

 

[jpc763]

Not sure. You can post a question in the Equipment & DIY section asking specifics.
As far as my system goes, it started its life as a wet/dry system and was converted to a 2 chamber fuge (one with sand and such and the other with just water.
My LFS sells a similar system that comes with everything you need to set it up so you might try something like that.
If you were going to build it yourself (I will do that next time), you start with the biggest glass tank you can fit and glue in either glass or plexi dividers to create a fuge & a sump (some people have 3 chambers) using aquarium silicon. Then you would need an overflow box (here is a link to a diy one https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...light=overflow) with a hose down into your fuge chamber. The return pump sits in the sump side of your system and has a hose going back up to the tank. Minimal you need a couple of PVC elbows and a PVC T to get it into the tank. I added the ball valve (which required all of the other PVC parts) so I could regulate my return.
That is pretty much it, but as I said above, there are Experts that will answer a question in the DIY section.
Good luck!

 

[mtsuguy]

Thank you very much for all your help and info jpc!