Sump Return Pump

[djcanis]

Is it ok to put a ball valve on the return line to my DT from the sump return pump. Its a needle wheel 500 gph. Its pumping back a little more then the overflow box dumps into the sump so I have to add water or turn off the pump in intervals. I am not sure if putting a valve on the return line will harm the pump or not... Your thoughts?

 

[florida joe]

So you are saying your sump is at a level lower then you would like, if so just add more water to your overall volume. Just make sure when you turn off your return pump you do not over flow your sump before your siphon brakes take effect

 

[djcanis]

I try to maintain a good level, but the return pumps more back to the tank then the overflow feeds. I put a valve on the overflow but I have it fully open. I couldnt find a smaller return pump so I am battling changing water levels and worry about the sump running dry and frying the pumps if I am late at work or soemthing. So my thought was to put a valve on the return line and close it a quarter way to balance things out. I am just worried that restricting any flow from the return pump will cause it to burn up or something.

 

[florida joe]

you need to add more overall water volume to your system Not restrict the return flow. Although doing so will raise the level in your sump it will also put you pump in a constant state of overload
How did you originally calculate how much water you needed for you setup?

 

[djcanis]

I dont think I am following you... I dont know if I can increase my overall water volume... I have a 90 gal tank with a 30 gal sump, I try to keep it over half full so around 20 gal in the sump. The tank stays topped off daily so I can increase the volume there at all. I have the overflow running constantly. Twice a day I have to shut the return pump off for abotu 3 mins, the sump fills back up and I plug the return pump in. I did try to fill the sump up fuller, almost to 30 gal, its the same problem, but I only have to stop the return once a day. I dont know how to get more water out ogf the tank and into the sump so my thought was to get less water returning to the tank.

 

[djcanis]

I really didnt do much calculation, It was more working with what I had. I set up the 90 and used my old 30 for the sump. The overslow was rated at 450gphI believe, and the closest return pump I could find was 500.

 

[robertmathern]

I am suprised in the fact none of you caught the fact that if his return pump is pumping more than his overflow is dumping IT WILL OVERFLOW HIS DT. he will need a ball valvw to advoid this from happening the only reason you sump is loseing water is because it is pumping it in to the DT. So falling water level in sump rising water level in DT.

 

[florida joe]

Ok let me try to explain my reasoning. You obviously do not have a variable speed pump. Your return pump puts out a constant GPH. You’re over flow box feeds water back to your sump predicated on a rate in relation to the water level in your tank. The more water in your DT the faster the water flows into our overflow box and the faster it gets to your sump. Now if you want the level of water in your sump to rise you increase the flow into your sump by adding water. Does this make any sense

 

[florida joe]

I am suprised in the fact none of you caught the fact that if his return pump is pumping more than his overflow is dumping
Did I ?
So you are saying your sump is at a level lower then you would like
Ok let me try to explain my reasoning. You obviously do not have a variable speed pump. Your return pump puts out a constant GPH. You’re over flow box feeds water back to your sump predicated on a rate in relation to the water level in your tank. The more water in your DT the faster the water flows into our overflow box and the faster it gets to your sump. Now if you want the level of water in your sump to rise you increase the flow into your sump by adding water. Does this make any sense? Right now what is the distance form the water level to the top of your tank

 

[djcanis]

Yes, that makes sense, but I dont know how to increase teh water levelin my tank, its an open top 90, but its alread up to the top. Any more and I have water pouring over the lip...
My overflow is a 2 part box, the giant box on the outside and a smaller 2 stage box with in the tank. It is adjustable, you cna move the box in the tank up and down, I am assuming to increase or decrease the flow to the sump. I have tried expermenting with movign it up and down, but it doesnt seem to make much of a difference. In theory, would moving the box up or down increase flow? I will see if I can find a pic, otherwise I will post tongiht.
robertmathern: My concern and the reason for the post... I think putting a ball valve on the return line will mess up the return pump. I think any type of obstruction will cause the return pump to run in overdrive. If its supposed to pump a set gph and that gets restricted, where does the additional water go that is being pumped? I would think it would fry the pump after awhile? But Im not sure.
Would drilling holes in the pvc pipe from the return pupm to the tank that would dump back into the sump be a possibility?

 

[florida joe]

do you have prefilters in your overflow box. what is the level of water in your sump in Relation to the top of your return pump

 

[djcanis]

With the water I have now, 90 in teh tank 20 in the sump, I have about half of an inch... When the sump runs low I have maybe a quarter of an inch to teh top of the tank, if I shut the the return off and let the sump fill I get just over an inch...

 

[robertmathern]

no joe it dose not make any sence. Due to the fact hob overflows can only handle so much flow back to the sump. If you exceed that limit it will cuase the water to rise. Let me try to explain it to you in your terms so wish me luck. he stated his overflow is rated for 450 GPH and his return pump is rated for 500 gph. Now you figure in head loos on the 500 GPH lets say now he has 455 GPH of flow comming from the sump. That means he is pump 5 GPH more to the tank than what is going to the sump causing the water to rise in the DT But since it is a 75 gal tank it is harder to notice the rise in the tank than it is in the 30 gal sump. Hence the fact he keeps turning off the pump to fill the sump back up where do you think that water is going in the DT. If you just keep filling the Sump all you are doing is hiding the problem intill disater happens andd you get water on the floor. Hopefully I made sence here.

 

[djcanis]

Prefilters? It came with a black mesh like tube for for the drain and a bunch of the green pads which I took out to try to increase flow...

 

[djcanis]

Its a 90 gal, but yeah, thats why I have not added any more water to the system... I just take tank water and bucket it to fill the sump back up... If my sump was to drain completely I would have about 10 to 12 gal of water on the floor...

 

[florida joe]

try to post a pic of your overflow box and your sump

 

[robertmathern]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3064349
Did I ?Ok let me try to explain my reasoning. You obviously do not have a variable speed pump. Your return pump puts out a constant GPH. You’re over flow box feeds water back to your sump predicated on a rate in relation to the water level in your tank. The more water in your DT the faster the water flows into our overflow box and the faster it gets to your sump. Now if you want the level of water in your sump to rise you increase the flow into your sump by adding water. Does this make any sense? Right now what is the distance form the water level to the top of your tank
Also to add by adding more water to the system to will not increase flow the pump dose that. You still moving the water at the same speed no matter how much water you put in the system all you are doing is rasing the water level

 

[robertmathern]

robertmathern: My concern and the reason for the post... I think putting a ball valve on the return line will mess up the return pump. I think any type of obstruction will cause the return pump to run in overdrive. If its supposed to pump a set gph and that gets restricted, where does the additional water go that is being pumped? I would think it would fry the pump after awhile? But Im not sure.
Yes it will overdrive the pump a little. But for the amount it sounds like you need to throttle it back it will not make a difference. If that worries you put a t with a ball vale so when you throttle the pump back it dumps it back into the sump

 

[djcanis]

Im at work so I dont have pics readily avail. Here is the closest I could find to the overflow I have. On the one I have the skimmer box inside the tank is adjustable so you can change the height of it... I believe its to increase/decrease flow... Off the overflow I have 2" pvc pipe running staright down to the sump. Its about 5 feet from tank lip to sump. My sump is on the side of the tank not under... My return pump follows the same path only its 1" pvc that goes straight up and then splits into 2 jets...

 

[djcanis]

So put a T on my return line with on going to the DT and one going back to the sump with a valve... That could work theoritically...