Sump... sump... sump...

[seecrabrun]

OK so I think what I'm going to do for now is use one of the small tanks I have already and forego the refugium part.

So I need an overflow, plumbing down to the tank, filter sock/fiber and holder, return pump and return pump plumbing.

I want to try to make what I can myself.

I found this tutorial that seems very similar to bealsbob's

Does that seem right and worth a shot?

Them I found this as an alternative to filter socks. You put polyfill in it and it seems like it would also help with noise and salt creep?
https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-0/10934030_10205625092844761_8896404671014619356_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=98ec6c7102b79770df78947e18b77f8b&oe=55686486&__gda__=1432522707_33426b0697b712b36470595a766061a4

Need to figure out the right pump and how to plumb it.

 

[flower]

Hi,

I never had any trouble with salt creep when I ran my sump. The only noise I heard was the running water from the return, I found it to be soothing. The noise however didn't come from the sump itself, so polyfill wouldn't really help with that. Lots of people use filter socks or polyfill, it's all a mater of what you want. I even used a HOB at one point to collect the larger particles from the water and be able to run carbon...which is the whole reason for filter socks or polyfill.

The only real problem I had was silt developing on the bottom of the sump, I used a small canister filter, and run it like a vacuum...I just run the hose along the bottom of the sump to collect the yuck, the water was sucked up, run through the polyfill filter media in the canister, and returned to the sump. It needed to be done about once a year. I imagine using a filter sock would prevent that for the most part, I'm not so sure the polyfill would. Filter socks are a pain in the butt IMO, and have to be cleaned once a week or every few days...same with the polyfill, except you replace that instead of cleaning it.

You are only limited by your own imagination, I really liked the refugium chamber, that was a big help for keeping the system healthy. So I think making sure you have a refugium section would be important to consider, it takes very little space really, and it's so worth it.

As for plumbing, I used flex hose...I could replace that pretty easy, and it was easy to see if the water was running through the hose like it should be. 2Quills made sure I had cut off valves, so I could control the water flow. So you don't have to use PVC pipes, which has to be cleaned and cleared after a few years....it was just easier (for me anyway) to use flex hose.

Snake, 2Quills, or Acrylic51 can help you with what size pump and overflow. The distance from the sump to the top of the tank is important to determine that.

 

[seecrabrun]

I do want a refugium, but right now it's proving to be a setback. I think I should just move everything to an open sump and then work out how to do the refugium.

I need a skimmer and I don't have one and if I get one it'll need to be in the sump. I don't have any room left for any HOB items on the tank itself.

I've been having problems with surface film for a while. I have to focus a lot of energy on trying to skim it myself and getting lots of surface agitation. I'd like to focus that energy elsewhere.

 

[flower]

I do want a refugium, but right now it's proving to be a setback. I think I should just move everything to an open sump and then work out how to do the refugium.

I need a skimmer and I don't have one and if I get one it'll need to be in the sump. I don't have any room left for any HOB items on the tank itself.

I've been having problems with surface film for a while. I have to focus a lot of energy on trying to skim it myself and getting lots of surface agitation. I'd like to focus that energy elsewhere.

A skimmer is not going to help with film you are talking about, you need a power head to break up the surface...or... Try an air line, it's better then skimming the surface yourself. I use two air lines in my tank...no air stone, just let the big bubbles break the surface.

I don't understand, the sump and refugium are one and the same. Divide up the tank you use for a sump with 2 shorter then the tank glass dividers...create one section for your skimmer, one your refugium, and another for your return pump. I put put the refugium at one end, and the skimmer at the other...return pump in the middle. I then had one overflow that divided, feeding into two flex hoses, which dumped water into each section that overflowed the glass dividers, to send water to the center, where the return pump sent the water back up to the display. That is how 2Quills, Acrylic51 and Al&Burke designed the sump they made for my 90g, so I copied that design for my 30g, and the 56g...it worked great.

The chambers don't have to big, just make sure one is large enough for the skimmer to fit. The return pump, nor the refugium needs to have a lot of room.

 

[seecrabrun]

I was told the film was protein and a protein skimmer would help with it. I already have lots of surface agitation, but it just moves it around, doesn't get rid of it.

I can't get my hands on already cut glass that would fit and I'm not keen on cutting the glass myself.

I've been trying to figure out this sump thing since last august. I don't like the idea of paying so much for an already divided tank when I should be able to make my own, but I've had a hell of a time finding someone to cut some glass for me! It's been a bit ridiculous. I live in the middle of nowhere and it's biting me in the butt.
My hardware store that sells glass sheets won't even cut it for me and neither will the craft store.

 

[snakeblitz33]

The film on top of the water is definitely built up protein and will not go away unless it is skimmed out by a protein skimmer or a surface skimmer and mechanical filtration with water changes.

I understand you don't have a lot of room underneath your tank to make a glass or acrylic sump and you don't want to spend the money on a premade one. I have been there before.

The best thing about Walmart these days is the variety of food grade plastic totes. Lol. On the bottom of each container, you will find a triangle with a number of a letter inside of it. That number represents the type of plastic that it is made of. Look online and find the chart that shows what the different numbers mean. There will be more than one number of plastic which will be food grade.

You can buy a container that will just fit inside of your stand. Buy another container (same number) that is smaller to fit on one side of the larger container. The large container is the sump and the small container will be your filter box. OR you can use that PVC method where your water drains into a PVC pipe with filter floss and chemical filtration. On the other side you can have a small container fitting inside the larger container with a hole or slit at the top which keeps the container partially filled- you could have some macroalgae in it. A small skimmer that doesn't produce a lot of bubbles could just about go in any section.

Using a plastic container or two really cute down on the cost of having a sump.

 

[seecrabrun]

I kind of want to use the 10 gallon tank, since I have it and otherwise would need to store it, so I'd need to find something to fit in it? Does it need to be flush to the sides? Does it matter if water flows all around it?

I have all this information for all these months of researching, reading threads, and asking questions. It's given me some pre-conceived ideas that are causing a road block for me.

 

[seecrabrun]

I may have lost my marbles...

 

[snakeblitz33]

Sure you can use the ten gallon tank.

You could use egg crate as a divider in your sump. Egg crate is plastic, and is sold at hardware stores as lighting diffusers.

You can cut it easily with side cutters or other tools and silicone it in place with an aquarium safe silicone. GE1 silicone is good, just let it cure for a few days to a week before adding water.

 

[beaslbob]

OK so I think what I'm going to do for now is use one of the small tanks I have already and forego the refugium part.

So I need an overflow, plumbing down to the tank, filter sock/fiber and holder, return pump and return pump plumbing.

I want to try to make what I can myself.

I found this tutorial that seems very similar to bealsbob's

Does that seem right and worth a shot?

Them I found this as an alternative to filter socks. You put polyfill in it and it seems like it would also help with noise and salt creep?
https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-0/10934030_10205625092844761_8896404671014619356_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=98ec6c7102b79770df78947e18b77f8b&oe=55686486&__gda__=1432522707_33426b0697b712b36470595a766061a4

Need to figure out the right pump and how to plumb it.

that's the general idea but there are several slightly different designs. But basic design is that should power fail the overflow does not keep draining. And that during power out there is a "water trap" (u shapped part external to the tank) which maintains the siphon for when power returns.

One difference with "my" designs is that the water level is set by the horizontal external to the tank. With a riser inside the tank you could use that to set the running water level as well.

 

[flower]

I kind of want to use the 10 gallon tank, since I have it and otherwise would need to store it, so I'd need to find something to fit in it? Does it need to be flush to the sides? Does it matter if water flows all around it?

I have all this information for all these months of researching, reading threads, and asking questions. It's given me some pre-conceived ideas that are causing a road block for me.

Hi,

Use the 10g as you quarantine, and get a plastic tote like Snake said...

 

[seecrabrun]

I won't need a QT anymore after these fish that are in it finish their cycle. Unless you are supposed to QT corals? Are you supposed to QT inverts?

I have a separate setup for doing the tank transfer method, and also a 5 gallon tank. I always just do a fresh water dip on my inverts. I only buy hermits and tidal snails.

 

[flower]

You will always need a quarantine/hospital tank to be there and ready if you need it. Lots of people do quarantine corals and inverts if they came from a system with fish...since the water could be contaminated with parasites or disease. I personally didn't, since the lights are expensive, and I didn't have spare lights I could put over a QT, and I never quarantined an invert.

You never know when a fish may get sick or injured, you should have a tank ready for action if the need arises. A 10g isn't much of a sump, but it would make a good hospital/quarantine size...a 5g tank is useless, even small SW fish need at least 10 to 20g tanks.

LOL...I know you may feel you are done and never need to get another fish, but sadly fish die, and you will replace them, so you will need that QT again. A plastic tote will work much better then the little 10g for a sump...I know sumps sound hard, but they really are not. It's always best to set things up right to start with, you will kick yourself for not setting up a refugium along with your sump, a tote costs around $10.00. Nobody is going to see it, it will be under the stand hidden away.

 

[seecrabrun]

I can't keep a QT or hospital tank setup all the time though. I'd only be able to store it away and get it out as needed.

The biggest problem with the plastic tote as a sump is I'm not sure I'll be able to find one the right size. It basically needs to be the exact size of a 10g tank, which is why I figure just use that tank.

The space I have to work with, a 10g fills it to the max. It's about 19.5" wide, 10" deep, and 15" high. A 10g is 20x10x12, so that allows for a little air circulation room.

I can buy a 10g for $10-14 at walmart/petsmart if I needed to setup a QT or hospital. Since I can't keep it up and running at all times. I do keep lots of rock rubble and sponges in the tank/HOB refugium for if I needed to set up a quick tank.

I have a small tank, so I only buy small fish. When I purchase them they are always no bigger than 3/4". I'm now at my max so unless someone dies, I can't add another fish. And if someone dies, it'll likely be a while before I replace him/her as I get attached to my critters, no matter if they are snails or dogs, like they are family.

 

[seecrabrun]

Please have a look at these pictures.

This is a:
5g tank pushed all the way to the wall
and a
10 gallon that would be to the wall if the plugs weren't there.

The plugs are going to be moved up to the next shelf and that shelf is going to have some water proofing added to the bottom, but I'm trying to eliminate all splashing.

Also the tank will be moved away from the wall slightly to give room for all the plumbing behind the tank.

 

[flower]

Take the measurements, a 20g should fit in there just fine, and the tote idea will work as well. You should not have the stand that close to the wall, it may look odd at first, but you should have your tank about 7 inches out from the wall.

 

[snakeblitz33]

The bottom picture is a ten gallon, Flower. It will not fit. Period.


If your outlet is being the tank like that, I suggest a GFCI unit. It helps to cut off the electricity so you don't get shocked.

A 5g would be way too small

 

[seecrabrun]

The outlet is GFCI. The second picture is indeed the 10g.

I've never seen a plastic storage container that was long and tall but narrow. If you know of one then by all means, but all the ones I've seen are long and tall and wide ,or short and tall and wide, or short and tall and narrow.

 

[seecrabrun]

I promise you I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to work with what I have. If I knew then what I know now, things would be easier, but I didn't know and no one could tell me as they weren't in my situation. Now I'm stuck with what I have because my options are spend money one place or spend it the other, not "buy everything". I also can't help where I live or how the people are in my area. I live at least 40 miles from any decent type civilization, we are just a small town in the middle of a national forest and we have what we have. I make the vast majority of my purchases online, even some food items, because I can't get them locally.

So my tank is 29 gallons and has to stay that size, my cabinet has a slightly smaller footprint than my tank since it has a table style top, and the space inside that cabinet is even smaller. I only have 1 place in my entire house I can put this tank and in that place is an outlet that is in my way, and I can't put the cabinet/tank very far away from the wall. It's also just me and my kids here, so projects take a long time to come to completion and some things I just can't do. I'm not mechanically inclined and I'm not very handy and I don't own any power tools, all manual versions only.

If you have a look at this picture I shared earlier, you can read what the dimensions are internally. Only thing that is missing is the depth, which is 12" but 1" of that is taken up by the doors when closed and their magnet, so I would rely on the sump hanging off the cabinet in the back some. If the container is not rigid then I wouldn't want it to hang off the back very much.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Ahead of the game! Great!


The ten gallon will hold all the water but will be hard to service,... Is there a way to remove the middle shelf and brace it higher up?