Sump Turnover Question

[en_pissant]

Thought I would poll the group on a question.
I've got a 55 gallon reef tank, with a 30 gallon sump. It's been setup for about two and a half years, and has evolved somewhat over time.
Right now I have two 750 GPH CoralVue High Seas propeller style powerhead in the main tank. In the sump I have a 500 GPH MagDrive 5 pump that runs up to a spray bar that sits behind my live rock. I have drilled the tank, and have a PVC overflow that returns to the sump.
I'm aware that I need more turnover than this setup is currently giving me. I would also like to have more water movement from the spray bar. My corals are doing pretty well, my anemones have split several times, and my fish look good. I'm also getting good coraline algae growth. That said, I think things could look better, and this is one area where I know my system is lacking.
I live in Seattle, and don't run a chiller. I know that when I ran four Rio pumps in the tank, instead of the two CoralVue powerheads, the tank ran a lot warmer. I'm considering just getting a larger MagDrive pump. Perhaps the MagDrive 24 (2400 GPH) which would give me about 1100 GPH at the spray bar. That seems like a lot of pump, is my estimate correct? I'm also wondering how much heat that is going to add to my system.
Would an external pump produce less heat? Something like an Iwaki or Blueline? Any recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[gill again68]

The problem you could run into here is if your return can handle that much flow. That will be what ultimately limits the size return pump you use. The rest will be either from a closed loop system or power heads. Hope that helps.

 

[en_pissant]

That's a good point Gil. I have 1" PVC going back to that sump. I guess I could take some of my RIO pumps and run lines up to the tank, and see what the overflow can handle. I could also put a ball valve in to regulate the flow once I get my new pump.
I actually don't have a closed loop system on this tank. I just run the sump all the way to the spray bar.

 

[king_neptune]

why do you want water racing through your sump?
They work best when things can sit and stew for a while.

 

[en_pissant]

I was under the impression that I need about a 15X per hour on water in and out of the sump. With that 500 GPH MagDrive, I'm probably only doing about 5 or 6X. If people think that's sufficient, then I'll stick with it, but I was thinking more would be better.
What kind of turnover are you running Neptune?

 

[bryce.martin23]

I had the same problem on my old 55 gal setup. The flow rate seems to differ from one person to the next. I have two LFS that I have been going to for a while now, one store is owned by an old timer who belives you should only have 10x flow/hr so your sump can work its magic while the other store is a more new age store with the latest and greatest. He tells me that he likes up 30x flow/hr. I guess it depends on what your housing also, if your doing a bunch of softies then I would stick with maybe 10x but if your doing a SPS tank I would definitly run it a little bit faster, maybe 20x flow/hr. Just make sure that the flow is random as possible and not just blasting in the tank from one direction. As for your intake not being able to keep up with a massive pump, try to create a full siphon with the 1" tube, this will let it suck up more water than the normal 600 gal/hr. Other options for running one large pump is to run a T-elbow off the outlet side of the pump with a ball valve. If your pump is pumping too much into your main tank you can crack open your valve and run the existing water back through your sump so your pump doesnt have any stress put on it. But honestly Id rather just drill another hole in the tank, I know it sounds like a pain in the --- but ive come to realize that its eaiser to just bite your lip get it torn down and get it done rather than mess with it for hours and still not have it done right.

 

[en_pissant]

Thanks Bryce. That gives me some more feedback. I've got some SPS in there, so perhaps I'll trend toward the higher side. Wow, 30X seems like alot. Since my output for the tank is my spraybar, I'm probably slowing it down a bit there as well.
Ya, I hate drilling, but that might be necessary to get the proper amount of flow. Seems like the siphon method could be risky i you are relying on it, and you lost siphon.

 

[bryce.martin23]

Originally Posted by en_pissant
http:///forum/post/3230497
Thanks Bryce. That gives me some more feedback. I've got some SPS in there, so perhaps I'll trend toward the higher side. Wow, 30X seems like alot. Since my output for the tank is my spraybar, I'm probably slowing it down a bit there as well.
Ya, I hate drilling, but that might be necessary to get the proper amount of flow. Seems like the siphon method could be risky i you are relying on it, and you lost siphon.
ive been running my tanks full siphon with no problems yet, but then again all my tanks have been drilled so there is really no way for it to break. The only way i can think it could stop it would be if somthing got stuck in the tubes but thats a slim chance. If your really worried about the siphon breaking, if you drill the tank then drill and extra hole on the side and run an elbow upwards from the bulkhead so that if the siphon does break the water will then overflow into the backup. Once you have a drilled tank there is no turning back.
As far as the 30x over, it does seem like a lot to me as well, im setting up a 65 gal as we speak and am doing the exact thing you are, I have drilled the tank with a 1.5" bulkhead. Im going to have a dolphin 2800gph pump hooked up to a SCWD and plumbed throughout the tank. I hear that the SCWD slows the flow down little but not a big problem for me. Then again im making this tank into a full SPS system. The more RANDOM flow the better.