suppliments -Calcium and KH.

[garick]

I am trying to figure out which suppliment/brand would work best for my situation.
I have 7 tanks plumbed into one large sump. One is 33 gallons the rest are 11. With my calcium and KH low. I have begun to do water changes on a weekly basis but I also wish to add more calcium and improve my KH. With these small tanks all plumbed together what would be a good choice for a supplement that can be added directly to the tanks without a special piece of equipment?
I have considered Purple Up. and KENT nano tank supplement which is one part calcium one part KH. Its two bottles that work combined in a tank.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by Garick
http:///forum/post/3192408
I am trying to figure out which suppliment/brand would work best for my situation.
I have 7 tanks plumbed into one large sump. One is 33 gallons the rest are 11. With my calcium and KH low. I have begun to do water changes on a weekly basis but I also wish to add more calcium and improve my KH. With these small tanks all plumbed together what would be a good choice for a supplement that can be added directly to the tanks without a special piece of equipment?
I have considered Purple Up. and KENT nano tank supplement which is one part calcium one part KH. Its two bottles that work combined in a tank.

Never dose unless you test for it, and there is a need. With a weekly water change you should not need to dose at all.

 

[matt b]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3192427

Never dose unless you test for it, and there is a need. With a weekly water change you should not need to dose at all.
And that is why you will never grow corals like people that dose buffer and calcium everyday.
Corals use buffer and calcium to grow. If you do not give it to them they will not use it and they will not grow. If you do not dose everyday your levels will stay the same.
How am I doing a bi weekly water change and dosing 90 ML of buffer and 100 ML of calcium everyday and your not adding anything? And just so you know that tank is all soft corals with a few LPS.
Soft corals use calcium no matter what anyone says. Not as much as stonies but they do. How do you think they stand up?
If you do not dose they will not use it. Even if you only dose a few ML a day it is better the not at all. So you can work up the tank abality to use it.
ESV Bionic two part is the best two part for the money. Salifert calcium and DKH test kits are the most accurate. They are a true titration test kit.

 

[garick]

The thing is my red coraline is turning gray. I am getting a new set of test kits hopefully next week and some buffering to help return it to normal... Assuming the calcium and KH are low and making my coraline die off.
You mean the A + B stuff?

 

[matt b]

Originally Posted by Garick
http:///forum/post/3192493
The thing is my red coraline is turning gray. I am getting a new set of test kits hopefully next week and some buffering to help return it to normal... Assuming the calcium and KH are low and making my coraline die off.
It could just as well be to high. It would more likely turn white if it was too high though.
There could be alot of things causing it to die off.
But tanks do get to a point where things have done so well and so much has grown and if you are not giving them buffer and calcium some things will slowly die off to make more room for new things to grow.

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by MaTT B
http:///forum/post/3192480
And that is why you will never grow corals like people that dose buffer and calcium everyday.
I agree eventually ALL successful reefs REQUIRE additional calcium and carbonates beyond what salt mixes and water changes can provide. Uptake is just too fast. If this never happens then you probably have a tank with a few corals opposed to a reef or other issues.
Stay away from the Purple up's, Liquid Reef and all in one products. Almost all calcium supplements meant to raise calcium and all 2 part calcium supplements are primarily calcium chloride (some add other trace elements). ALL alk supplements meant to raise carbonate levels are either carbonates, bicarbonates, a mixture of both or a mixture of both along with borate salts. those with higher bicarbonate content will help raise pH otherwise they all do the same thing. the only real difference among reputable brands for calcium and carbonate products will be concentration and price.
Just be aware ALL "2 part" systems use watered down calcium chloride. carbonates are utilized at a 3:1 ratio to calcium so to dose a balanced dose in equal parts (5ml to 5ml for example) the calcium HAS to be watered down. Stand alone calcium chloride products are significantly more concentrated then 2 part calcium supplements meant to be dosed with a matched carbonate product. Those stand alone products are much better for RAISING calcium as you'll use a ton of 2 part to raise calcium to get in balance or where you want it. I use stand alone ca and alk products to maintain OR raise either. its doesn't take rocket science to determine how much daily or regular addition of a calcium and carbonate product your tank requires so I choose not to use 2 parts with often a 3rd of the calcium chloride stand alone products provide just for matched volume dosing (so what if I have to dose three times the amount of liquid carbonates than calcium which I do. is that bothersome for some folks?).
examples of stand alone calcium chloride products are:
Kent Liquid calcium
Seachem Reef complete (also has mg and sr but 90% ca chloride)
Brightwell calcion
Two little fishes calcium concentrate
Bulk reef supply calcium chloride (dry. stand alone or two part)
kent turbo calcium (dry)
seachem reef advantage (dry version of reef complete)
example of stand alone carbonate products:
Seachem reef carbonates
kent pro Buffer dKH
Bulk reef supply sodium bicarbonate (stand alone or two part)
Brightwell Alkalin8.3
examples of popular two parts:
Bulk Reef supply (see above)
ESV B-ionic 2 part
TLF C-balance 2 part
Kent tech CB 2 part
Brightwell reef code A/B
ALL these are based on calcium chloride and carbonates (basically soda ash or baking soda) to maintain and/or raise ca and alk (carbonates). Choose whatever brand has the concentration/price you like.

 

[garick]

So basically I just need to gauge my amounts based on my needs rather than what is "standard" or "normal" and not really worry so much on the highs and lows as long as what I have is doing well.

 

[stanlalee]

yes there is no "standard" or normal. how much needed is always based on growth rate and stocking. Dose higher (but not all at once if you need a huge change) until you get ca and alk where you like it within a reasonable range close to seawater (400-500pm ish for ca, 7-11dKH ish, actual seawater about 400ppm and 7dKH respectively) and then use whatever amount of carbonate buffer and calcium product required to maintain it.
wether you use 2 part or independant ca/alk products either way you have to test regularly. the only difference is with two parts (only after you balance ca and alk where you want them) by principle you can just test alk and dose ca based on alk results (if you need 15ml a day of part A to maintain alk, you'll need 15ml of part B calcium a day based on the known ratio of utilization. they dilute their calcium accordingly). Independent calcium and alk supplements have no such ratio matching with each other so you dose based on indepedent testing (alk dose based on alk testing and ca based on ca testing). you usually go thru alot more alk product than calcium using stand alone products while obviously you will go thru both parts of the two parts equally once in balance. using stand alones are more cost effective as you just end up using way less product (mind you a 500ml bottle of 2 part cost about the same as a 500ml bottle of stand alone products).
example using a reef calculator:
to raise calcium 20ppm in a 100g of water you'll need this amount using the following products:
Kent liquid calcium: 75.7ml
Seachem reef complete:50ml
Salifert coral calcium: 47.3 ml
now compare that to the amount of 2 part calcium products required:
B-ionic ca part: 125ml
c-balance ca part: 200ml
kent tech CB: 136ml
so if you use two little fishes C-balance to maintain calcium which is fairly popular you will go thru four bottles of that compared to one same size bottle of seachem reef complete. I guarantee you c-balance isn't 4x cheaper. even b-ionic which is one of the most popular and concentrated 2 parts will go thru 2.5x the amount of reef complete to achieve the same results. this is why I use stand alones. Bulk reef supply is actually suppose to be the most cost effective of them all BUT I dont want to mix (they come dry) or rely on mail order.