Supreme Mag Drive Pump Model 12
- Thread starter ravenx
- Start date
broomer5
Active Member
The chart represents the loss of flow that the pump will lose as it pumps water against a vertical run of pipe, hose or tubing.
Sort of like pumping water uphill.
At zero feet of head - such as if you were take the pump out of the box, place it a tub of water and plug it in - about 1200 gallons per hours will shoot out of the pump's outlet.
If you hook a pipe or hose up to this same pump and the water must be pumped up 2 feet vertical - the pumps flowrate will be decreased to around 1150 gallons per hour.
Same for 4 feet = flow drops to around 1100 gph, and so on.
This drop in flow is natural when using a centrifugal pump.
The loss of flow is due to the inefficiency of the pump being able to pump the same rate when there is vertical head pressure above the pump.
Some will call this backpressure, although most call it head pressure since it's truly a vertical head were talking about.
Putting a restriction in the hose, or say dropping from 1" piping down to 3/4" piping will induce a pressure drop into the equation.
This could be described as inducing some backpressure on the pump.
Most pumps come with a chart that shows how it performs ( or should perform ) under various "head" pressure installations.
All you must do is grab a tape measure, and measuer the distance from the pump's outlet to the return hose outlet in your tank ( to the highest point in the return line piping ) and value willl be your head.
Take this distance, say it's 36 inches ( 3 feet )
You'd have 36 inches or 3 feet of head pressure ( freshwater )
Take this 36 inches times your specific gravity say 1.024 and you're actual head is 36.86 inches of head pressure.
Not really worth including the saltwater's density when determining the head, but with other heavier or lighter liquids, it along with the temperature of the liquid can make a huge difference when selecting pumps.
The Mag12 is listed as having a 15 feet maximum head. In other words, if you try to pump water up higher than 15 feet - it will not work so well. The vertical distance or head pressure becomes too much for the pump to overcome, and you will get little if any water out the top of this 15 foot vertical length of pipe.
Sort of like pumping water uphill.
At zero feet of head - such as if you were take the pump out of the box, place it a tub of water and plug it in - about 1200 gallons per hours will shoot out of the pump's outlet.
If you hook a pipe or hose up to this same pump and the water must be pumped up 2 feet vertical - the pumps flowrate will be decreased to around 1150 gallons per hour.
Same for 4 feet = flow drops to around 1100 gph, and so on.
This drop in flow is natural when using a centrifugal pump.
The loss of flow is due to the inefficiency of the pump being able to pump the same rate when there is vertical head pressure above the pump.
Some will call this backpressure, although most call it head pressure since it's truly a vertical head were talking about.
Putting a restriction in the hose, or say dropping from 1" piping down to 3/4" piping will induce a pressure drop into the equation.
This could be described as inducing some backpressure on the pump.
Most pumps come with a chart that shows how it performs ( or should perform ) under various "head" pressure installations.
All you must do is grab a tape measure, and measuer the distance from the pump's outlet to the return hose outlet in your tank ( to the highest point in the return line piping ) and value willl be your head.
Take this distance, say it's 36 inches ( 3 feet )
You'd have 36 inches or 3 feet of head pressure ( freshwater )
Take this 36 inches times your specific gravity say 1.024 and you're actual head is 36.86 inches of head pressure.
Not really worth including the saltwater's density when determining the head, but with other heavier or lighter liquids, it along with the temperature of the liquid can make a huge difference when selecting pumps.
The Mag12 is listed as having a 15 feet maximum head. In other words, if you try to pump water up higher than 15 feet - it will not work so well. The vertical distance or head pressure becomes too much for the pump to overcome, and you will get little if any water out the top of this 15 foot vertical length of pipe.
ravenx
Member
hmm that mag 12 could be a problem, not sure. basically im going to have a 180 gal tank that will be 24 inches tall, plus the stand (which I don't know how tall it will be). Im not sure how tall the tank and stand will be together, but do you think the mag 12 will be enough for my 180 gal.? or should I look for a higher gph flow rate pump? btw my water pump will be in a sump in the stand.
thanks in advance.
thanks in advance.
broomer5
Active Member
Do you have the 180 gallon tank yet ?
Have you decided to go with a drilled tank or planning to use an external overflow box ?
There are tons of good pumps on the market, lots to choose from.
The overflow gph must be known first - then you choose a pump.
Or you choose a pump and select the overflow.
Or look at them together and match them to each other and your installation.
It all depends on how many turns/hour you're looking for.
There's no magic number - although many feel that 5-10 times per hour is good.
In a 180 gallon FO tank - anywhere from 900 to 1800 gph would seem reasonable.
I don't have a 180 gallon tank - so I'm just making some assumptions here.
Have you decided to go with a drilled tank or planning to use an external overflow box ?
There are tons of good pumps on the market, lots to choose from.
The overflow gph must be known first - then you choose a pump.
Or you choose a pump and select the overflow.
Or look at them together and match them to each other and your installation.
It all depends on how many turns/hour you're looking for.
There's no magic number - although many feel that 5-10 times per hour is good.
In a 180 gallon FO tank - anywhere from 900 to 1800 gph would seem reasonable.
I don't have a 180 gallon tank - so I'm just making some assumptions here.
broomer5
Active Member
Well ....
Part of the external overflow box is internal LOL
If you want internal overflow - you must buy a tank that has holes in the bottom of the tank. Then you see nothing on the back or sides, and all water enters the sump and returns to the tank through the bottom. Normally there are some risers in the tank. Some being drains and some being returns.
It's also possible to have the back wall drilled or bought with overflow(s) back there. Water enters and exits the display tank through these holes. Or just the overflow is drilled and a return hose is used to some form of a spraybar or fitting.
External overflows have both an inner and outerbox, and a U-shaped siphon tube.
If you are not getting a glass tank that's been drilled, or has these holes, and you want a sump set-up, then the external hang on the back dual box overflow is about your only practical choice.
Here are a couple popular overlfow links.
LifeReef
CPR Overflows
Part of the external overflow box is internal LOL
If you want internal overflow - you must buy a tank that has holes in the bottom of the tank. Then you see nothing on the back or sides, and all water enters the sump and returns to the tank through the bottom. Normally there are some risers in the tank. Some being drains and some being returns.
It's also possible to have the back wall drilled or bought with overflow(s) back there. Water enters and exits the display tank through these holes. Or just the overflow is drilled and a return hose is used to some form of a spraybar or fitting.
External overflows have both an inner and outerbox, and a U-shaped siphon tube.
If you are not getting a glass tank that's been drilled, or has these holes, and you want a sump set-up, then the external hang on the back dual box overflow is about your only practical choice.
Here are a couple popular overlfow links.
LifeReef
CPR Overflows
ravenx
Member
thanks for the link. yeah im most likely going to go with an external overflow box. For my 180 gal. that im going to buy soon, i've decided to go with the CS150 ( http://www.cprusa.com/products/overflows.html ). The only problem I have is, finding a Mag pump that will pump at least 2000gph at 0 feet. The largest one that I've seen would be the Mag 12 which only pumps out about 1200gph. Does anyone know if they make a larger model than the mag 12? If not, then what other good quality water pump would you reccomend?
ravenx
Member
Pond-Mag 24 - Mag Drive Pump
This Mag-Drive Pump features:
Cord Length 18 feet
AMP/Wats 3.0/265
Outlet Size 1.25 inch OD
Gallons per hour at oulet height of:
1 foot - 2400
3 feet - 2000
5 feet - 1800
10 feet - 1300
Shutoff - 30 feet
Im thinking about getting the mag 24. because from the bottom of my sump to the top of the tank im probably going to use at least 5 1/2 - 6 feet of pvc tubing. So does anyone know if these mag 24's are really loud or not? im hoping they're not, but seeing since they pump out a lot of water they're going to be loud. any imput will be appreciated.
This Mag-Drive Pump features:
Cord Length 18 feet
AMP/Wats 3.0/265
Outlet Size 1.25 inch OD
Gallons per hour at oulet height of:
1 foot - 2400
3 feet - 2000
5 feet - 1800
10 feet - 1300
Shutoff - 30 feet
Im thinking about getting the mag 24. because from the bottom of my sump to the top of the tank im probably going to use at least 5 1/2 - 6 feet of pvc tubing. So does anyone know if these mag 24's are really loud or not? im hoping they're not, but seeing since they pump out a lot of water they're going to be loud. any imput will be appreciated.
broomer5
Active Member
RavenX
The CPR CS150 is rated for 1600 GPH.
Are you going to double up and use two of these ?
If not - using just one with a return pump over 1600 GPH actual flow, you could be asking for some wet trouble.
The 1600 is a conservative number - but there are other factors that also affect the draining rate of an overflow.
I would leave a little room for error, and certainly not use a pump rated more than the overflow is rated.
The CPR CS150 is rated for 1600 GPH.
Are you going to double up and use two of these ?
If not - using just one with a return pump over 1600 GPH actual flow, you could be asking for some wet trouble.
The 1600 is a conservative number - but there are other factors that also affect the draining rate of an overflow.
I would leave a little room for error, and certainly not use a pump rated more than the overflow is rated.
ravenx
Member
well im thinking that since im going to use about 6 or 7 feet of tubing, the gph on the pump would drop down to about 1600 gph, as you can see in the little chart I posted in my previous post. So the overflow box and pump should be very close in pumping the same amount of gph. Or am i making some kind of mistake and it won't work?
broomer5
Active Member
When looking at head pressure - you're really only concerned with the "vertical" distance from the pump up to the highest point of the return line.
Horizontal distance - although does affect the amount of flow somewhat, does not really matter all that much as long as the return line does not contain elbows, tees, valves or extreamly long runs of piping.
Fittings, valves and other obstructions can cause a pressure drop along the return line, increasing velocity somewhat.
Some major restrictions can cause backpressure on the pump too.
Is this 7 feet measurment straight up, or are you talking total "length" of hose/pipe/tubing ?
Are you using any pvc fittings ?
Are you reducing down from one size line to a smaller sized line ?
All should be considered.
Horizontal distance - although does affect the amount of flow somewhat, does not really matter all that much as long as the return line does not contain elbows, tees, valves or extreamly long runs of piping.
Fittings, valves and other obstructions can cause a pressure drop along the return line, increasing velocity somewhat.
Some major restrictions can cause backpressure on the pump too.
Is this 7 feet measurment straight up, or are you talking total "length" of hose/pipe/tubing ?
Are you using any pvc fittings ?
Are you reducing down from one size line to a smaller sized line ?
All should be considered.
one last question, do those overflow boxes need a seperate pump to run? or do they just use gravity to siphon the water from the top of the tank?