Tang with Ick-Best Treatment??

[potter]

I recently purchased a yellow tang on Saturday and noticed Wednesday evening the tang was rubbing against the rock and upon inspection I discovered a few small white specks on the front two fins, and minimal on body. My question is, do I treat with lowering salinity or do I just flush him? I have been told that ick is almost impossible to cure. Will the other fish in the aquarium get ick also? I have a 72 gallon bowfront with a maroon clown, foxface, and damsel.
Any response would be greatly appreciated as this is a new setup and I am still learning. Thanks for your help!

 

[hot883]

Read the disease thread on ICH. It is cureable, not easy ,but do-able. Beth is our resident expert. What she says is gospel with fish disease.

 

[jmick]

First, in the future you may want to invest in a Quarantine tank so that you can QT all new fish before putting them in your display tank. This will allow you to treat the new fish for Ich if it starts to show signs and keeps your main display tank healthy and parasite free.
Ich is highly contagious and it’s likely that your other fish will come down with it, especially if it’s a new tank. If it were my tank, I’d get the fish into a QT tank and run it at a lowered specific gravity and at a temp in the mid 80’s. In the mean time, I’d let the main tank go fallow for 4-5 weeks. These two steps will help insure your tank stays Ich free.

 

[bob a.]

Amen to the QT, but at this stage of the game, if the new fish had it, then its in the tank. You could pull out the newcomer, but please dont flush him, its not his fault... We have had good luck with a medicine called Kick Ick. Believe its by Rallye. Treatement will tank several weeks all told. We have done it on a reef tank and had minimal problems with it affecting the corals or the critters. Normal medication for ick is copper based and that would be fatal to the inverts, so using something reef safe is important.

 

[harndog]

Bob did you guys just use kick ich or did you take other precautions? What temp did you run your tank at? I have a hippo in a 175 with a d sailfin and a 150 lbs of lr as well as hermits and some snails. I am affraid catching her and putting in a smaller QT would just cause her to stress more possibly even killing her I would also have to catch the sailfin and she is 6 or 7 inches long. I really need something and have heard kick ich works and have heard it don't. A success story would be great.

 

[grumpygils]

Originally Posted by Harndog
Bob did you guys just use kick ich or did you take other precautions? What temp did you run your tank at? I have a hippo in a 175 with a d sailfin and a 150 lbs of lr as well as hermits and some snails. I am affraid catching her and putting in a smaller QT would just cause her to stress more possibly even killing her I would also have to catch the sailfin and she is 6 or 7 inches long. I really need something and have heard kick ich works and have heard it don't. A success story would be great.

I am about a week and a half into using "kick Ich". Who knows if it working? Every time I think it is, I see flecks, every time I am sure I wasted my money and have left my tank an ick mess, they go away. I hoping that kick ick just breaks the cycle enough for my fish to recoup and deal with it. I have a qt tank and did qt the fish and I still got it. I am not going to rip out every rock to get a royal gramma, so i am trying KI. One LFS says there is a 50/50 chance, online says 80/20 noway, and the other LFS says I am dorked! It is a reef tank but I the SG to .19-20 and temp to 82 and see if that helps speed up the demon cycle! I will let you know.
MC

 

[rstiles]

I had a big problen with ick in one tank tried every thing I finely tried kick ick (did for two cyles) raised temp to 82.5 seems to work,last fish left no signs of ick for two weeks.I've been told you always have ick in tank something triggers an out break,adding new fish with ick,over stressing a new addition,adding fish to fast in to tank-maybe one every 2/3 weeks until you stocked tank and useing a qt.by the way tangs are very pron to ick.

 

[skiutah]

I just cured ick from my 120 reef.

I have 4 tangs and every one of my 10 fish had ick pretty bad. I used garlic extreme on food and then put it into the tank. Within 1 week it had almost cleared up. I then kept using it and it cleared up after about 2 weeks. It has been another 3 weeks since then and I have not seen any cases of ick.

(Knock on wood)

NOTE: I also picked up 4 cleaner shrimp and a good UV sterilzer when I saw the first case of ick, so I think that helped out too.

 

[scubadoo]

The only known and proven additive that will be effective against marine ich is copper...which will also kill all other inverts. based on proven and known science, how can an additive be reef-safe and only harm one invert ich while leaving all others alone?
There are many enviornmental conditions that can lead to an ich outbreak if the disease is present in the system If you used Kick Ich and your fish got better it is because the conditions that lead to the outbreak improved.
THere is nothing in Kick Ick that is scientifically proven to be effective against marine ich...big zero.
Too often we as hobbyists draw coorelations that are simply nothing more than a coincidence.
JMO

 

[jcrim]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
The only known and proven additive that will be effective against marine ich is copper...which will also kill all other inverts. based on proven and known science, how can an additive be reef-safe and only harm one invert ich while leaving all others alone?
There are many enviornmental conditions that can lead to an ich outbreak if the disease is present in the system If you used Kick Ich and your fish got better it is because the conditions that lead to the outbreak improved.
THere is nothing in Kick Ick that is scientifically proven to be effective against marine ich...big zero.
Too often we as hobbyists draw coorelations that are simply nothing more than a coincidence.
JMO
For some reason you completely reject the possibility that any copper free product can work to kill ich. This is incorrect. While I'm sure you will respond to this opinion by quoting others' articles and studies, I have seen one of these products work on different systems with my own eyes. Your rejection of this possibility is based only on your theory that it could not possibly kill ich and leave other inverts alone. This is incorrect.
I'm not denying that these products are not as reliable against ich as hypo or copper, but to absolutely reject the possibility that any such product works is simply incorrect.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jcrim
For some reason you completely reject the possibility that any copper free product can work to kill ich. This is incorrect. While I'm sure you will respond to this opinion by quoting others' articles and studies, I have seen one of these products work on different systems with my own eyes. Your rejection of this possibility is based only on your theory that it could not possibly kill ich and leave other inverts alone. This is incorrect.
I'm not denying that these products are not as reliable against ich as hypo or copper, but to absolutely reject the possibility that any such product works is simply incorrect.
Post the ingredient and associated studies that prove it. When you have disease, it is always best to use the protocols that are proven with hyposalinity being the best choice.
Simply contact the manufacturer and ask them for their studies which supports their claim(s).
These products are less than effective becuase they can cause water parameter problems, actually harm inverts and waste valuable treatment time.
Also, some of the producers of these so-called reef-safe products also produce copper based additives. I'm not certain why they would continue to do this if the voodoo mixtures work and were proven.
I have already stated that coorelations are often drawn that may not be accurate. But, if anyone feels these products are effective use them.
I'll not post anything regarding research/articles. I'd simply like to see the studies from the manufacturer which proves their claim.

 

[jcrim]

Why do you disregard personal experience?
Again, you are right that hypo and copper are more reliable. Just letting you know that to offer advice to others that it is scientifically impossible for any copper free product to work is wrong... whether you believe it or not. I could show you the tanks but you'd probably suggest that the ich died of old age and not because of the treatment.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jcrim
Why do you disregard personal experience?
Again, you are right that hypo and copper are more reliable. Just letting you know that to offer advice to others that it is scientifically impossible for any copper free product to work is wrong... whether you believe it or not. I could show you the tanks but you'd probably suggest that the ich died of old age and not because of the treatment.
Okay..here is why....just because ich is present in a marine system does not mean you will notice an outbreak. There are several enviornmental conditions that will lead to an outbreak if the disease is present in the system.
They are as follows:
1) Poor water quality
2) Poor diet
3) Overcrowding
4) Stress (many contibutors)
5) Weak immune systems
6) Constant temp flucs of greater than 2 degrees
if you have one or more of these factors along with the disease present in the system than an outbreak could occur. So, if I add a voodoo mixture and should one or any combination of the factors that led to the outbreak improve and the fish get better what led to the improvement? . A coorealation is drawn...I added the mixture and the fish got better...but the conditions that were present that led to the outbreak may have gone unnoticed.
Feel free to send an email to any of these porducers and ask them for the documentation that supports the claim. I've given up as all I get is silence. perhaps you will have better luck.
I base my position on the known and proven science and studies. I'll leave specualtion to others.
If you feel these products are effective and have no problems recommending them by all means do so. But you should be able to answer what is in it that has beed proven effective provideing studies/science pertaining to marine ich. You should also be able to find something posted by the producer that supports the claim.
I'd rather see folks use the tested and proven metod of hyposalinity.
Again, all of this is just my opinion. Folks are free to ignore it and simply use the products. I simply offer my opinion for consideration. You can consider it...or ignore it.

 

[jcrim]

There is no point in responding (but I guess I am anyway). Hypo is the best treatment for ich! But to call any copper free medication "voodoo" and advise that it is impossible for any to work is wrong. Read the previous posts. Several people have treated ich with copper free substances. Again you seem to chalk these successes to miraculous water changes instead of the medication.
Even the most experienced hobbyist should be able to learn from others' experiences.

 

[scubadoo]

If anyone has a bottle of Kick Ich...call the producer and ask to speak to Dr Grillo or the replacement if the Doc is no longer there.
Ask the Doc to send you the proof/studies.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jcrim

There is no point in responding (but I guess I am anyway). Hypo is the best treatment for ich! But to call any copper free medication "voodoo" and advise that it is impossible for any to work is wrong. Read the previous posts. Several people have treated ich with copper free substances. Again you seem to chalk these successes to miraculous water changes instead of the medication.
Even the most experienced hobbyist should be able to learn from others' experiences.
A water change may or may not improve on one factor 'poor water quality" . I would call it a sensible approach in general as part of disease outbreak prevention and a sound maintenance program
Please read all the possible contributing factors above for disease outbreak regarding marine ich . Water quality is just one factor........ so no, I could not possibly chalk it up to this alone.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jcrim
Why do you disregard personal experience?
Because there is no science or study that documents these products work. I should not have to prove a claim made by the producers...thay should support their calim with fact and studies.
I encourage you to call the Ruby Red folks or send them an email Ask them to send you their studies supporting their claim regarding their Kick Ich product and the effectiveness of same on marine ich . They should exist....right?
I'll admit I am wrong and be a Ruby Red Kick Ich promoter if you can get me that documentation.

 

[jcrim]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Because there is no science or study that documents these products work. I should not have to prove a claim made by the producers...thay should support their calim with fact and studies.
I encourage you to call the Ruby Red folks or send them an email Ask them to send you their studies supporting their claim regarding their Kick Ich product and the effectiveness of same on marine ich . They should exist....right?
I'll admit I am wrong and be a Ruby Red Kick Ich promoter if you can get me that documentation.
The fact is that I don't care enough about convincing you to do the work. Many have told you that certain products can work. If you don't believe in anyone else's experiences, then your mind is clearly made up. That's fine but your theory on copper free ich treatment lacks credibility. You are passing on this theory to others despite all of the testimonials to the contrary.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jcrim
The fact is that I don't care enough about convincing you to do the work. Many have told you that certain products can work. If you don't believe in anyone else's experiences, then your mind is clearly made up. That's fine but your theory on copper free ich treatment lacks credibility. You are passing on this theory to others despite all of the testimonials to the contrary.
Sorry, but the product is a scam to this hobby. I can assure you I have already "done the work". It is not up to me to prove the producers claim.....how can I do so when they provide zero proof and do not provide the information?
It is not a theory that I have....,it is a theory the producers of Kick Ich have......they simply make claims on a bottle.
I have simply stated a position and pointed to possibilities as to why the disease imporved after adding the scam product. All the factors I have posted are known contributors to marine ich outbreaks if the disease is present in the system
I'll say it again and try to do so logically...how can one product selectiively kill one invert...and leave all the good ones alone based on known science today? Perhaps one day such a product will exist.
The only kicking this product will do is kick the money out of your wallet.
My opinion is but one...ignore it.

 

[jcrim]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Sorry, but the product is a scam to this hobby. I can assure you I have already "done the work". It is not up to me to prove the producers claim.....how can I do so when they provide zero proof and do not provide the information?
It is not a theory that I have....,it is a theory the producers of Kick Ich have......they simply make claims on a bottle.
I have simply stated a position and pointed to possibilities as to why the disease imporved after adding the scam product. All the factors I have posted are known contributors to marine ich outbreaks if the disease is present in the system
I'll say it again and try to do so logically...how can one product selectiively kill one invert...and leave all the good ones alone based on known science today? Perhaps one day such a product will exist.
The only kicking this product will do is kick the money out of your wallet.
My opinion is but one...ignore it.

I've SEEN the product "Chem Marin Stop Parasite" work on 2 different systems. None of your listed factors changed during the treatment. Maybe you should do some more research... or maybe you should just listen to the experiences of others.