Tank Crash!!!!

lionkiller

lionkiller

Member
I have had my tank in Hypo for about 2 weeks now.
I got home last night and half my tank is dead. I lost my two tangs, yet another lionfish, sleeper goby, and my Clarkii Clown. I have left two Groupers, Two firefish, an engineer goby, and a molly.
This is the second crash I have had in a little over two years. The last one happenned pretty much the same way except it wasn't under Hypo. The engineer and one firefish I have have survived both crashes (just something to file away when looking for a strong fish).
The first time I never figured it out.
This time I have two thoughts...
The first being, maybe I can't stock this many fish. I have no refegium or wet/dry for filtration, so maybe my load can't handle it. But I am unsure. I have a friend using the same undergravel filter and two emperor/penguin filters and he stocks roughly the 9 fish for the last three years. But each system is different. I do have live rock (50lbs. only) but it wasn't in the tank during hypo, so maybe the loss of the rocks filtration abilities is what did it also. I am unsure.
However. I checked my levels immediately. Here is what they were.
Ammonia .2 (wasn't that way when I checked two days ago, it was 0 then)
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
temp 82 degrees, ( I did have a temp probe go out on me and my temp dropped to 75, but I immediately replaced it. temp was low for only about 6 hours total)
PH 7.8 (this is low, to me. and was at 8.2 two days previous)
salinity is 1.009 (per my readings and two local fish stores)
The tangs have been rapidly breathing since before I started hypo and were covered in ick at the time as were my groupers. I started the hypo and the ick disappeared on them in two days but the tangs kept rapidly breathing.
Yesterday morning I noticed a red spot on my clown right under his fin, so I added some Macryn (SP?) to help with this. I have read of people using Macryn and hypo together so I don't think this was it.
I am leaning to the sudden drop in PH and the ammonia showing up.
I was pretty mad last night whne I discovered this. I have decided to not add anymore fish for a very long time if ever again. I stopped the hypo. Started raising the salinity, raised the PH. and did a water change to remove the ammonia. I added my live rock back also.
The groupers, firefish, and engineer goby all seem fine......
I just wanted to see if everyone else agrees with my assessment that it was probably PH and Ammonia.
 
jd

jd

Member
I had a similar problem, as soon as i took out my UGF, it has never happened again.
Might try that, but youll need some other means of filtration added, a skimmer, or HOT canister filter
 
rickstar

rickstar

Member
sorry about your loss mate, few points that ive pickedup are the salinity 1009 i have mine at 1024-1025 natural sea water,the other is the amount of life rock u have , my 55 runs 40kgs , skimmer , penguin biowheel set up filter, 2 p/heads ,
keep your cheen up and dont give up!
 
ren99

ren99

Member
at that salinity, you can maybe put in some freshwater fish and they will all survive together.


raise it up.
 
dmc888

dmc888

Member
He said he was treating the tank with hyposalinity.
Here is what i found in the disease section for hypo treatment.
NOTE: This procedure can not be performed in an environment containing live rock, live sand or inverts [including crabs, corals, etc.] If you have a strictly Fish-Only setup, then the treatment can be done within the display, otherwise, you will need to treat infected fish in a quarantine/hospital tank.
You will need: Refractometer or a glass hydrometer calibrated to tank temperatures, pH buffers, a tank or quarantine area for the infected fish that is adequately filtered.
Hyposalinity is a procedure involving lowering the salinity from normal tank levels to 14 ppt (1.009 Specific Gravity) over the course of 48 hours. This is done by doing a series of small water changes using fresh dechlorinated water. During the procedure, pH must be closely monitored as pH tends to drop as water become less saline. Fish are maintained in hyposaline conditions for three weeks after all symptoms are gone. Again, accurate measuring is essential, and the standard swing arm hydrometers are not going to work. A refractometer or large glass lab grade hydrometer calibrated to tank temperatures is needed. Once the fish have been asymptotic for three weeks, the salinity is then raised back to display tank levels over the course of a week. Fish can not tolerate rapid increases in salinity. Leave the fish in quarantine at display tank levels for another week.
Your display will now have been fishless for at least four weeks, sufficient time to allow the parasite’s life cycle to be interrupted. ****** is an obligate parasite that requires a fish host. No fish=No host=No parasite. Ich is a fish-only parasite, it will not affect inverts.
Continue to monitor pH daily during the process and be prepared with buffers to address any pH problems. Also keep the water clean through proper filtration.
I'm thinking it was PH change from hypo.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Ammonia is what did it most likely.
I do not agree that a tank void of host fish is safe after one month and the ich cycle broken. It needs to be at least 45 days in my opinion.
 
robchuck

robchuck

Active Member
Sorry to hear of your crash. Two thoughts come to mind as to why something like this could happen. First, the removal of the live rock likely taxed the biological filtration abilities of the tank and ammonia began to rise. Or (and I know you mentioned that there were three sources of measurement) the specific gravity wasn't exactly as you thought it was in hypo (was it measured with a refractometer or a hydrometer?).
Plus, all of the events that took place (the temperature drop jumps out at me) would be stressful on any fish, so that may also have exacerbated the deaths of the fish. But as the last statement of your first post reads, I believe the fish died to elevated levels of ammonia and lowered pH.
Be careful as you bring the salinity back up. Fish can handle a relatively quick (two days) drop towards hyposalinity, but it needs to be brought back up much slower.
Keep your chin up and don't get too discouraged!
 
lionkiller

lionkiller

Member
Thanks for all your replies and input. I agree with Robchuck's observations and everything seems fine now. The salt level I am raising again slightly and things seem stable as I have been going.
It is just frustrating because my girlfriend was depressed over the crash and looked at my immediately and said empty the tank and sell it. I managed to talk her out of that....
 
F

fonzoner

Guest
just out of curiosity i see u have a fairly large tank.how much salt did u put in it to have 1.0009?a tablespoon?thats insanity to have it that low.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member

Originally posted by fonzoner
just out of curiosity i see u have a fairly large tank.how much salt did u put in it to have 1.0009?a tablespoon?thats insanity to have it that low.

Not insane at all. he was running hyposalinity in his main tank to treat ich. THis is actually a better choice then copper but you need to be careful as most if not all inverts cannot survive the low salnity..and neither can ich. SOme even suggest to drop it to 1.007 for maximum result .
Please do research on hyposalnity before you call someone insane insult them, and post your mad/flaming face.
 
lionkiller

lionkiller

Member
Thanks for the defense scubadoo, but it is unnecesary. They responded their feelings and I welcome them. Even if they were made out of ignorance or the result of poor reading skills.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
I am very concerned as to why you had ick to begin with...
IMO, the tank was VERY overstock with incompatible fish. Eventually, that would have worked itself out, with the groupers and lion eating all the smaller fish. But I think 2 groupers, a lion and 2 tangs alone would totally max out that tank.
I think you removed a big chunk of your biological filtration at a critical time, and for a tank with that bioload the biological filtration may have been marginal.
I am concerned about circulation in the tank...do you only have the undergravel powerheads (how many?) and hang on filters?
Sorry about your loss. :(
In the future it would be a good plan to decide which way you wish to go with the tank (predator or smaller reef fish). Though it may work, it is just not a good idea to cram so many fish big fish in a smallish tank. At least a wet dry filter can hold the fort, so to speak...but other filtration wouldn't keep up, IMO.
 
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