uncle fester
Member
OK, explain to me why the discarge line from the tank MUST enter at the top of the sump above the waterline. All designs seem to do this. Is there a reason?
Tank line to sump question
- Thread starter uncle fester
- Start date
uncle fester
Member
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm talking about where water enters sump not tank. I'm just thinking that noise would be even less an issue if water entered sump below waterline. Thanks for the response.
broomer5
Active Member
Two words - Entrapped Air.
As the water flows/falls down the drain line/hose, this line is not typically completely full of water - there is air in there too.
As the water moves to the sump, if the drain hose outlet line is under the water - this air is discharged under the water level, and you will have HUGE air volumes that must escape into the sump. The water from the overflow ( and air ) must overcome the head pressure created by the water in the sump. Deeper this drain line is in the sump - the more head pressure there will be.
This leads to large popping blurping sounds, and can cause the drain to fill up restricting flow.
One thing you do not want is a restricted drain from overflow to sump. Plus the noise is more than just noticable - it's a very loud BLURP that you can easily hear.
So most designs allow the water to come in the surface of the sump, either through a trickle plate arrangement, or hitting the surface allowing the air to escape.
I have a dual outlet overflow.
One drain I take to an old trickle plate wet/dry column that I modified ( hacked up ) to fit the sump area. The other drain I've got discharging at sump water level, sort of horizonatal across the surface water of the sump.
This arrangment allows the bottom half of the pipe to handle the water flow, and the top half of the pipe is open-exposed for the air to get out.
A long gentle sloping drain works better than a vertical straight down drain to sump - In my experience.
See ya
As the water flows/falls down the drain line/hose, this line is not typically completely full of water - there is air in there too.
As the water moves to the sump, if the drain hose outlet line is under the water - this air is discharged under the water level, and you will have HUGE air volumes that must escape into the sump. The water from the overflow ( and air ) must overcome the head pressure created by the water in the sump. Deeper this drain line is in the sump - the more head pressure there will be.
This leads to large popping blurping sounds, and can cause the drain to fill up restricting flow.
One thing you do not want is a restricted drain from overflow to sump. Plus the noise is more than just noticable - it's a very loud BLURP that you can easily hear.
So most designs allow the water to come in the surface of the sump, either through a trickle plate arrangement, or hitting the surface allowing the air to escape.
I have a dual outlet overflow.
One drain I take to an old trickle plate wet/dry column that I modified ( hacked up ) to fit the sump area. The other drain I've got discharging at sump water level, sort of horizonatal across the surface water of the sump.
This arrangment allows the bottom half of the pipe to handle the water flow, and the top half of the pipe is open-exposed for the air to get out.
A long gentle sloping drain works better than a vertical straight down drain to sump - In my experience.
See ya
uncle fester
Member
Broomer, thanks for the response. Makes perfect sense. Take a look at the URL below and tell me what you think of this, please:
<a href="http://www.superskimmer.com/evosump.htm" target="_blank">http://www.superskimmer.com/evosump.htm</a>
Seems this design would solve that and result in a litlle less noise at least. Thanks again, Fester
<a href="http://www.superskimmer.com/evosump.htm" target="_blank">http://www.superskimmer.com/evosump.htm</a>
Seems this design would solve that and result in a litlle less noise at least. Thanks again, Fester
uncle fester
Member
Actually, I'm planning on building my own, so only looking for design ideas right now. I should have sufficient room under my couch (no kidding, that's where all my equipment is) to build a sump 36"Lx20"Wx14"H.
broomer5
Active Member
now that's a new one on me Under couch sump - I gotta hand it to you - very creative - sort of listen to the water gurgle as I drift off for a nap LOL.
Anyways - yeah that looks like a good design, especially the slits in the vertical drain tube - never thought of that as an option - learn something new every day - give me an idea to fiddle around with too - thanks !
The sump is nice - sorta pricey but still very nice and I can see why someone would buy it.
The sponge bubble trap filters are nice, but need to be cleaned often if going reef tank - but that's cool - just another thing to clean though. Although some claim you can actually promote some denitrifying bacteria in these sponges, I have no experience doing so.
Either way - still okay.
If you have your return(s) vented at top surface of display tank - and don't get a lot of back flow to the sump upon power loss - a smaller sump is do-able, but you have to tinker with it to safe. As Ed implied - Bigger it better with sumps too.
For my money ( near $300.00 bucks for an acrylic box with baffles, bulkheads and fittings - I'd prefer to DIY. But I had stuff left over from an old wet/dry I could canibalize, so it was cool.
Thanks for showing this sump - gives me and others here some ideas too.
See ya !
uncle fester
Member
Broomer5, I'd be happy to show pic of my under-couch sump if I could find out how to post the darn image. I have no website so URl is no help.....
richard rendos
Active Member
The drain from my tank enters the sump under the water level to reduce noise and splash caused by water hitting the surface. Hard to see, but in this picture you can see the water coming into the sump on the right side.
uncle fester
Member
David S, let me know your e-mail and I'll e-mail you some pics. I have no web page so unable to post pics on forum, Uncle Fester (nicholas@wcc.net)
wamp
Active Member
Another reason some people have their line above the water line is so you can add a prefilter to the line. I wish I had put mine under the water line! It is loud! I have seen alot of tanks with their drain under the water line in sump and they are fine. Like i said, wish I had done that..
uncle fester
Member
David S, picas are on the way. Let me know if you got 'em, UF
