Tank not Cycling

[toothscratcher]

ok so i have a 55 gallon aquarium 30lbs of LR, 1 damsel and im running a fluval fx5 filter. but heres the problem its been about a week since ive gotten my fish and there has been no chang in ammonia or nitrite.
so whats going on?

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by toothscratcher
http:///forum/post/3213000
ok so i have a 55 gallon aquarium 30lbs of LR, 1 damsel and im running a fluval fx5 filter. but heres the problem its been about a week since ive gotten my fish and there has been no chang in ammonia or nitrite.
so whats going on?
Some more info would help.
What are your water parameters?
How long has the tank been up and running?
How long has the damsel been in there?
WHY did you put the damsel in?
Was the LR cured?
What are you feeding? How much, how often?
I'm sure others will have other questions

 

[toothscratcher]

well all perameters are at zero
the tank has been running a little over a month
the damsel has been in for about a week
a guy at my LFS advised me to put him in to cycle the tank
The LR was cured
I'm feeding ocean nutrition formula one flakes twice a day and only a little amount.

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by toothscratcher
http:///forum/post/3213010
well all perameters are at zero
the tank has been running a little over a month
the damsel has been in for about a week
a guy at my LFS advised me to put him in to cycle the tank
The LR was cured
I'm feeding ocean nutrition formula one flakes twice a day and only a little amount.
Using a fish to cycle is not a good idea.
Anyways, it sounds to me like your tank IS cycled.
Get rid of the damsel. He'll create nothing but trouble. They are VERY aggressive.
If the LR was cured, you'd have a light cycle. I really think your tank is cycled. You may want to try some snails and whatever else you're planning on for a CUC.

 

[toothscratcher]

Originally Posted by BTLDreef
http:///forum/post/3213011
Using a fish to cycle is not a good idea.
Anyways, it sounds to me like your tank IS cycled.
Get rid of the damsel. He'll create nothing but trouble. They are VERY aggressive.
If the LR was cured, you'd have a light cycle. I really think your tank is cycled. You may want to try some snails and whatever else you're planning on for a CUC.
alright that i shall do ,thanks for the advice.

 

[mony97]

I agree sounds like the tank is already cycled, get rid of the "dam"sel and add your CUC. You should be set to go

 

[toothscratcher]

so should i get another fish along with my cleanup crew or is that a bad idea?

 

[mony97]

You could but it is risking the well being of the fish, give it a week or so before adding fish, and keep checking all your parameters.

 

[btldreef]

Originally Posted by mony97
http:///forum/post/3213065
You could but it is risking the well being of the fish, give it a week or so before adding fish, and keep checking all your parameters.
+1
Here's what I'd do:
Add 1/2 your CUC. Check parameters for 1-2 weeks (I do 10 days). If everything goes well, then you can add 1 fish. Again, wait 1-2 weeks and check parameters. Then you can add another fish or a coral. Wait a week, add the other 1/2 of your CUC. And just take it slowly from there. Try to only add one thing every 10 days until you really have the a good handle on your tank and how it controls new additions.

 

[florida joe]

there are two parts to your bio filtration nitrification and di nitrification. You may very well have both going on. I would increases the amount of organics braking down by adding a cocktail shrimp monitor for nitrates. Di nitrification is a slow process you should show some trates and no readings of ammonia or nitrites if you are about to cycle

 

[beaslbob]

It is possible that if the live rock had sufficiant algae like corraline, macros, or even just hair algae, that there would be no ammonia or nitrite spikes. Because the algae actually will prefer to consume ammonia to get its nitrogen. Then as the aerobic bacteria build up more and more ammonia is being converted to nitrItes then nitrates, so the algae gets more and more of its nitrogen from nitrates. So you effectively cycle the tank with no ammonia or nitrIte spikes.
my .02

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by beaslbob
http:///forum/post/3214386
It is possible that if the live rock had sufficiant algae like corraline, macros, or even just hair algae, that there would be no ammonia or nitrite spikes. Because the algae actually will prefer to consume ammonia to get its nitrogen. Then as the aerobic bacteria build up more and more ammonia is being converted to nitrItes then nitrates, so the algae gets more and more of its nitrogen from nitrates. So you effectively cycle the tank with no ammonia or nitrIte spikes.
my .02
ummm let me think, NO NO NO AND NO

 

[btldreef]

I have to respectfully disagree to with Florida Joe on this one.
DO NOT PUT A COCKTAIL SHRIMP IN THIS TANK! You already have a fish in there, if you create a cycle, which I believe happened already, you could and more than likely WILL kill the fish.
If the fish has been in there for a week and you haven't noticed any spikes, you're not going to, your tank is cycled. That being said, you need to continue to monitor your parameters and take things slow.
I have started numerous tanks by adding cured live rock and live sand and been able to add fish and CUC overnight. I did this most recently with my 155G. I've started ALL of my tanks this way and have started other peoples tanks this way as well. It's basically the norm here on LI to use cured LR and live sand and start your tank immediately. The only reason I even waited the 18hours before adding anything to my tanks is just that the sand makes the water cloudy. I've never had a nitrite/ammonia/nitrate spike. I believe this is what has happened in your tank.
This being said, I wouldn't recommend this to a new hobbyist as the route to take, but you already have, so here we are.
You will be fine, just take things slow because your filtration needs to start growing beneficial bacteria which will help out the tank. You may also want to consider running carbon media.

 

[florida joe]

It is possible that if the live rock had sufficiant algae like corraline, macros, or even just hair algae, that there would be no ammonia or nitrite spikes. Because the algae actually will prefer to consume ammonia to get its nitrogen. Then as the aerobic bacteria build up more and more ammonia is being converted to nitrItes then nitrates, so the algae gets more and more of its nitrogen from nitrates. So you effectively cycle the tank with no ammonia or nitrIte spikes.
First what part of the above do you agree with. Second a shrimp will not instantaneously degrade.we are talking about a cocktail shrimp. The slow degrading of the shrimp will encourage nitrification. How were you able to assure yourself that the live rock or sand had nitrifing bacteria colonized when you started your tank and added fish so quickly or were you just rolling the dice

 

[garick]

Its really the rock that make the difference. The sand certainly helps since it covers a big area but its the rock that the water flows around and really removes a big part of the waste/ammonia/whatever.
Its like this: 3/4ths of your sand is not being touched by the water since its like a wall. While your rock nearly all of your rock is being hit by water at some point so the sand is the lesser of the two that needs the bacteria. If you take sand/rock from an established tank then it should only have die off if its out of the water for minutes to hours. Otherwise it should already have all the bacteria types you'd need and that would have grown during the "cycle" process because it has already been through the process.
However if you add rock and sand that have been cycled and do not add in anything to produce the waste they live on, Then your tank will probably go through a cycle again from the bacterial die off due to lack of food for those bacteria and algae. (my belief anyway)

 

[florida joe]

Otherwise it should already have all the bacteria types you'd need and that would have grown during the "cycle" process.
and you know this how ?

 

[garick]

Because if its in a tank with fish, How could it not be cycled?
The whole idea of cycling is to allow any rock not kept in water with food to sit in a new tank and from that die off (decay causing ammonia and other things) would then FEED any living bacteria or to grow new bacteria. Once that is done then you have to add fish in slowly (which causes more ammonia which gives food for more of that bacteria to grow on).
Hence why if the rock is cured (ala kept in a tank with fish/food) it should already have the bacteria on it and have completed its basic cycle process.
However I will give you that IF the rock is in a heavily stocked tank, and you move it into a lightly stocked tank. There will be some die off and probably a short/small ammonia spike due to the fact that there is now less food for the bacteria to live on.

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Garick
http:///forum/post/3214498
Because if its in a tank with fish, How could it not be cycled?
The whole idea of cycling is to allow any rock not kept in water with food to sit in a new tank and from that die off (decay causing ammonia and other things) would then FEED any living bacteria or to grow new bacteria. Once that is done then you have to add fish in slowly (which causes more ammonia which gives food for more of that bacteria to grow on).
Hence why if the rock is cured (ala kept in a tank with fish/food) it should already have the bacteria on it and have completed its basic cycle process.
However I will give you that IF the rock is in a heavily stocked tank, and you move it into a lightly stocked tank. There will be some die off and probably a short/small ammonia spike due to the fact that there is now less food for the bacteria to live on.
wow where do I begin Live rock does not MEAN IT WILL cycle ammonia. nitrification takes place due to nitrifing bacteria colonized on surfaces within our tank. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE NOR ARE WE GUARANTEED IT IS ON OUR LIVE ROCK.

 

[garick]

I am relatively certain that is what I said. While not quite as articulate as it should have been.
The entire purpose of the rock is to give a place for the bacteria to grow. While its true that its not the only place, it does provide a lot of surface area more so than the rest of the tank not counting various sumps and holding tanks.
The point being is that rock and sand going into a tank, the rock and sand being taken from an established tank. Will /should provide bacteria to help accelerate the cycling process.
I am by no means any sort of expert in the subject but I'd think that anything in a previous tank would have the bacteria growing on it.
and while I may claim that rock going into a tank from an established tank will only cycle due to lack of food to keep its current bacteria alive. I too believe that a tank should run with LR in it several weeks before fish go in...

If for no other purpose than QT the rock for anything that might show up as a threat to the tank/fish

 

[florida joe]

The entire purpose of the rock is to give a place for the bacteria to grow
This is absolutely not true. live rock is a platform for algae and gritters as well as anaerobic bacteria to colonize with in. The colonization of bacteria for nitrification takes place in areas where there is a constant supply of nutrient rich water such as your bio balls filter media and inside your overflows and returns pipes