tank problems, brown growth, fish dying

[oracledba72]

Last night my yellow tang died. I bought a clarki clown 3 days ago. He just died this morning. My yellow tail damsel is looking bad. My two dominos look great though. I need to take my water to get tested today ( i know i need a test kit ). I have brown algae that has pretty much gone crazy on my rock and some on the back glass. Any ideas without knowing water parameters? I'm assuming some sort of poisoning in the tank. Also, the CC is getting brown stuff all over it. Should I just give up or what?

 

[marty]

Is your tank newly set up? It sounds like you are still cycling. The brown algae is probably a diatom bloom, which is normal.
Couple thoughts assuming your tank is cycling: 1) the tang probably died because it couldn't handle the stress of cycling. 2) Your clarki died because it was added to a cycling tank full of ammonia/nitrites and again couldn't handle it.
Don't give up, just wait out the cycling. Your domino's may make, if they don't, well, you may have learned something at their expense and your $$. Do not add anything more until the cycle is finished. Get yourself a test kit and watch the water parameters. Once everything is normal, start thinking about what fish to add. I would wait at least 1 week after you think your tank is finished cycling and then test it and have the lfs test it before buying anything. Also, tangs generally do not do well in smaller than 80 gallon tanks. Do some research on fish that you think you want to add before doing so. There are alot of sites that describe the fish and minimum recommend size of tank they should be in. Those minimum size tanks are they for a reason. Think about how you would be if you were locked in a prison cell and could not get out of the cell at all, plus they said you were going to have about 5-10 cell mates in that little cell.
Ok, enough of my soap box. I am not trying to belittle you, just giving my 2 cents/opinion. My opinion is based upon that your tank is still cycling. If it isn't new, then there are probably other things going on. More information from a test kit would be helpful for more explanations to help you.
Hope I have helped!
Marty

 

[oracledba72]

Ok, thanks for the reply. Should I be trying to scrape this stuff off the glass or rocks at all? I did use my algae sponge thingy to get some off the glass about a week ago. It is in full force now though, the tops of my rocks are covered in it. Should I try getting it off the rocks at all?
Also, when should I do a water change. The tank has been up 5 weeks now, and i did a water change at the 2 week mark of around 20%.
Will this brown algae go away by itself?
Thanks again.

 

[marty]

How are the domino's doing? Are they looking pale and gasping for air? The brown diatom bloom will go away be itself. I have heard people adding snails and crabs to help, but I would not recommend it as they might not survive the cycling tank either. Wait it out if possible.
If the dominos are not doing well, you might do a water change of about 10%, but this will lengthen your cycling process. Hold off if possible.
Did you ever find out if the tang had "flatworm" disease? (sorry - I looked back at some of your prior posts after I posted my first reply realizing I had recognized your name).
Patience is key to this hobby. I am really learning that myself. I have screwed up enough times that I am really trying to be more patient now.

 

[oracledba72]

The dominos are doing great. They don't seem to show any signs that the others did. They seem to be breathing fine and eating well. I will be keeping them, not just for cycling the tank, because I do like them a lot.
So I shouldn't scrape the brown diatoms off anymore then, ok that's easy enough. How does it go away, just disappears?
I took the tang to the lfs, and they couldn't not identify the problem. I'm not sure if it was flatworm or not, but it sounded like it and appeared to be that. It's a fish only tank so I have no idea how the "flatworms" got in there? maybe that's a stupid question.
Thanks for replying today, I appreciate it.

 

[oracledba72]

Oh also, I was wanting to know if I should order some Black Diamond for my media container in my emperor 280. I read you could use carbon to help do "something", not sure I remember what. lol. Would anyone recommend this?

 

[marty]

You can scrape it off the tank (I wouldnt recommend the rocks), but it will probably come right back within a day or so until it finished itself. It will just disappear by itself.
I do not know anything about the Emperor 280. I do use carbon in my Fluval 404. They say carbon helps with water quality. If an Emperor 280 can use carbon, I probably would get some, especially since you do not have any "live" rock or live sand. It might help, it might not (at least visibily).
Do you really still have an UGF?

 

[oracledba72]

Ok, i'll just scrape it off the tank then. I still do have the UGF unfortunately. Would now be a good time to just take the 3 damsels back to lfs and use that to buy live sand to seed with play sand, do a dsb, and start over? Would a dsb work without Live Rock? I'm not sure I want to invest all that money into live rock yet. Would I have problems like i'm having now?
Also, I was thinking of making my 65 gal. a freshwater cichlid tank again, and going with a new tank for saltwater. I could maybe see doing 25 lbs of live rock in a 29 gal tank. I don't know.

 

[marty]

Starting over is totaly up to you. I have read here that UGF's do work ok, but alot of people also say that they are a pain. I never had one with salt water (long long time ago as a kid I had freshwater - way too long to even say if it worked ok or not). In my experience, I wish I had started with live sand only and some small rocks (live or dead). I started with a mixture of live sand and cc and just switched to a dsb over the weekend. I also added about 50lbs of live rock to about 15lbs already there. I have an 80 gallon tank, probably could use about 10-20lbs more. Thinking when I win the lottery I will get another 50lbs.
Live rock isn't all that expensive if you get it over the internet. My 50lbs cost 3.79/lb which is alot better than the $7-8 at the lfs. It is not as exciting as what the local lfs store has, but it seems to be decent. I also bought 50lbs of ls from the same place. Not overly exciting again, but seems to be live. I added 150lbs of play sand from home depot to get a 4" dsb. I am hoping this are going ok. Seems to be so far. Anyway, with about $400, you could easily transform your tank into a ls/lr combo. Not sure if that is out of your range, but I would think you could do even less as a start (a couple bags of ls from your lfs could be added to your cc - that is what I started with, but obviously I pulled it because I didn't like how it looked (and she gave me permission to do so) )
Keep in mind that I really have enjoyed my 80 gallon tank, even with all the expense it seems to be. I sit there staring at it when I get home from work, even with just 2 crabs and 1 star fish in it right now.

 

[oracledba72]

Lol, i do the same thing, just staring at the tank. Don't really know why. The $400 dollars is not out of budget, but I would just hate to spend the money only to have big problems. I have also heard you need a protein skimmer, and i have no clue how to set that up.
Does you live sand match the color of the play sand? Did you have to mix them up, or just put the live on top of the play?
Maybe I will order some lr and ls, i'll have to think and read a little more first though.
Maybe I should just let this tank cycle and see what happens, it's just i'm really pissed because the lfs didn't tell me NOT to use a UGF. On the same note, I mentioned this board and online research and stuff and they say they have never heard of it,
I also mentioned online ordering, hmmmmm, they haven't heard of that either, lol. Maybe because things are HALF the price online. I'll keep you or anyone else interested posted on what I do.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[marty]

A protien skimmer will probably cost about $100 if you order online. I have a prizm skimmer, seems to do okay. I have to empty it about once a week.
Unfortunately, my live sand does not match the play sand in color. I did just put the live sand on top of the play sand. I believe that is what one should do. Eventually the play sand will become live sand as more bacteria work their way down.
As for your lfs', keep in mind all they care about is you buying stuff from them. As long as you are buying, they will listen and sell you anything. Although I must admit there is one lfs here in Dallas that I believe some of the managers are not just "sales" driven. When you talk with them, they will give solid advice, similar to what I find here. When you talk to "sales" people, they will tell you anything. Unfortunately, I do not live near enough to them to really get to know the managers.
As for big problems, if you plan out what you want and slowly buy what you need before progressing with fish/corals/inverts, I am not sure what big problems you will have. As you indicated, do some reading here and online and books. You will see alot of ideas and experiences here. Big problems are eliminated (typically) if you do your research and maintenance. Maintenance is key to this hobby. Test your water, do water changes (after cycling), watch your fish, get to know their habits, you will know when something is wrong before testing the water. If I hadn't screwed up, I would still have my yellow tang, 4 clowns, 4 damsels, etc.... I was not patient enough nor educated enough to realize what I was doing when I did it. Now I do know my mistake and I am learning from it. I hope I do not make those mistakes again. Painful not only in that I lost good fish that cost $$, but also in that I lost the fish.
Good luck. And please do keep us informed. I hope I have helped some.
Marty

 

[jagnmeg99]

Ora, this is what we heard from my LFS and I do trust them (got very lucky) they seem to know their stuff, seem to not be in it for the money.
With CC it takes more than 5 weeks to cycle, they said it may take months--that is why we went with LS and we liked the look of LS.
Also in reading posts here for the last few months I believe over 50% would say the ideal way to go with a tank cycling is to not do any water changes---the tank needs to cycle out.
I am still new and learning (by all means)--just something for you to think about. I hope all goes well, don't give up--its sooooo worth it!

 

[frankl15207]

I think Marty hit it right on the head. The tank is too young. From the sounds of things, you are new to the hobby? I'm not sure that a yellow tang is a good starter fish for a new hobbyist.
They are hardy, but during the cyling process if you are going to add a yellow tang, it should be the only fish that you add.
The hardest thing to do with this hobby is wait. It takes patience and a lot of it. These are not freshwater fish. Most of them are captured in the wild and are not tank bred.
A tank cycle can take three months or longer. A tank is not really mature until it is a year old or so.
An ungergravel filter in a fish only tank is not a problem. Up until I changed to a reef tank, I always used them with no problems. Those tanks were up for 15 years. Just keep up a maintenance program that includes water changes and siphoning the sand bed. Problems can occur in them if the gravel becomes packed.
Again, patience and perseverance. Read as much as you can and be ready for failures. Saltwater requires proper management and balance in the tank.
From a circulation point of view, I have always targetet for 10 to 15 time water volume. I'm not sure how many gallons per hour your powerheads are moving, but you may want to add that up and make sure you are ok on it. Brown algae indicates a diatom bloom, but a lot of it may be due to poor circulation in the tank.

 

[bluemarlin]

frankl is right on with this.
When I first read your post I was a little upset that you did not educate yourself before jumping in like you did. But then I realized that we all went through a learning curve. Unfortunately its the fish that must pay the price.
Your tank is WAY too new to add fish like the yellow tang. Right now you should consider your tank as poisonious. It will kill just abouot anything that you place into it. This will go away once the tank cycles and beneficial bacterial grows and multiplies. Patience is truely the key here. Do not give up. Educate yourself and learn what you should be doing. Maintenance is key to any successful aquarium. I suggest leaving everything alone right now and do no water change. Maybe 10% but I'd say hold tight for now. Let it cycle.
You need a test kit! Period. Now question about it. You need to test at least every month and thats once the tank is going well for you. Right now you could be testing daily or at least every other day. This is saltwater. This is the nature of the beast. Its not as easy as fresh but the rewards are MUCH greater! Stick with it and please feel free to ask me any questions you may have. I don't know everything but I've got 28 years of experience under my belt. At my level, saltwater is easy. You will get there and you will love it once you have the beautiful set up you are starting.

 

[oracledba72]

Thanks Marty and everyone else for their replies. I will wait it out a while here. I'm thinking of adding a Emperor 400 for extra filtration, but would hate to just add it if not needed. The extra filter costs would add up. I might look into a protein skimmer next. I think i'll let my tank finish the cycle and just try out the UGF. I hope everything works out because I would love to add a couple nicer fish.

 

[frankl15207]

oracledba72
Don't mistake more filtration for more water movement. You can add water movement with a powerhead or stronger powerheads. I've found brown algae normally does well when there isn't enough water movement. The Emperor is supposed to put out 280 gph. The Penguins that you have 145 each. That's 570 gallons of water movement. I think you need to get it up to 780 or so at a minimum. Also make sure that your powerheads are positioned to ripple the water surface. We want to get more oxygen into the water. When I had a fish only 55, it had about 1,000 gph of movement.
Don't get frustrated. Everyone that does this has been there [Some of them just intentionally forgot about that part of it]. I just disassembled a tank that was up for 15 years and started over with a reef. The hardest thing for me is waiting, but I know the consequences of not waiting.