Tank settling down

[rzande1]

Well my tanks has been sitting and cycling. I have lost all of my snails except for two narcillis snails. (stupid things kept causing ammonia spikes - one dies and causes spike and that spike causes the next to die and so on). My yellow tang died and my last lawnmower benny disappeared somewhere in the tank and I cannot find it (probably will decay and make more ammonia). My two clownfish are doing great. They are doing their thing in the tank all happy. I brought down my salt level from 1.028 to 1.026. The temp is stable at 80. My coral died off before and I pulled that out a week ago. So this is what I am at.
Ammonia = 0-.25ppm (from my last snail dieoff yeasterday and my lawnmower benny that is somewhere althought may be hiding and not dead)
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20-40
PH = 8.1
Alk = 4.25
Calc = 450
Salanity = 1.026
Temp 80
There is algae growing on the rock sand and glass. A mix of purple, green, and brown. I put a new powerhead into the tank blowing on the liverock and that seems to help (hydor 3) Has the massive dieoff finally come to a close or is it continuing?

 

[dragonzim]

If you added all these fish before your tank finished cycling you would definitely have a problem with them dying on you. You really shouldnt have any livestock in the tank during the cycle.

 

[rzande1]

Originally I thought the tank was already cycled. That is why I added livestock. Well....turns out the lfs guy didnt know what he was doing and we added it in. The numbers told me one thing and they agreed saying I was doing everything right. Yea had two people telling me that there. Otherwise I would not have added anything into the tank because I know it wouldnt have been worth the dieoff and the stress.
All I want is for the tank to be good again. I am SO SO SO sick of seeing the thing look like crap and have to keep pulling out a snail every day. (not like I have to anymore since all my turbos are kia) The clowns are as happy as can be which is the small little flicker of hope I have that keeps me from ripping the whole thing apart.

 

[rzande1]

So....What am I supossed to do with this tank? Just let it sit more or what? Give it another 6 months? lol

 

[candycane]

There are a number of things that I have questions about.......
1. What is your water flow like? Do you have a decent amount of it around your tank?
2. Ever heard of a product called, I think it's PRIME? You might want to locate some of that if anything to help the clownfish.
3. Does any of the algae have bubbles trapped under it or in it? The snails dropping is my VERY first red flag. There is a certain form of alga(e) that kills off most turban snails that try to eat it, or at least weakens them and makes them sluggish.

 

[gatorwpb]

How long has the tank been running?
It does sound like you rushed to add livestock, or maybe added too much at one time without letting the tank balance to the new additions.
Either way, it sounds like it needs more time, not 6 months, but 1 month would be safe. Keep testing, because if you have ammonia now, you will have nitrite next and that is still harsh on fish. Replacing the clean up crew once the nitrite disappears would be the next step after the water parameters balance out. that will help with the algae.
If youre getting bad advice from your LFS, then maybe its time to find a new one.
I always go by what I learn and read on this site and make my own decisions in my LFS. Im lucky in that I have several very reputable LFS in my area, but I still trust my own knowledge first.
Good luck

 

[rzande1]

The tank has been up since apr 21, 2008. I put prime in every time I add water simply to clean out anything that the RO didnt get. But yea that kinda sounds what is going on. The snails go along find on the sand but when they fall I put them on the rock which is covered by the algae and they right where I put them. The lawnmower benny was eating that and it disappeared (kinda figured it is dead but it definately didnt starve.) I have a good amount of waterflow in the tank. I have a mag 7 from the sump. I have an eheim pro2 wetdry and an eheim canister pumping into the tank. I have that hydor 3 sitting on one side that blows straight accross the rock which I never had before. It is doing alot better now as it seems the algae is peeling off from the water movement.
Btw the ammonia has been staying at around .25 over the last two weeks from stuff dying and the normal bioload. The nitrites were up but then zeroed back down after a week of the continuous ammonia so I kinda figured it balanced for that load since my nitrates have been continuously going up in the tank which leads me to believe there is nitrite to nitrate conversion because they dont just get created out of thin air. There are no bubbles under the algae but I did notice that after eating it they tend to be weak. Maybe it is time to start stipping algae off of the rock? I did alot of cleanup of my sand and I have started using an algae scraper for the glass.
As for flow I have about 1850gph running give or take which is about 23 times turnover.

 

[candycane]

Research Dinoflagellates and see if that sounds like what you might have....
That is a WICKED bad alga. I personally think it will affect fish in the long run, but don't know if there is any proof of that. Snails that eat it will become "weak" which is kind of about a 95% factor that it is Dino. Dino smells pretty bad and I have noticed two factors that play a role in it. Light being one of them especially if it is regular from a window. If you google Dinoflagellates and getting rid of them, there are several articles on the internet about raising your PH level to get rid of it. I have had dino before and raising the PH did help A LOT. But DON'T go messing with the alga with your bare hands.
Your ammonia "treading" in the same spot and pretty much your nitrate might be another indicator. Usually when something dies the bacteria in the water and on the substrate is strong enough to dispose of it before it starts a chain reaction and takes everything out, unless you are dealing with something that suffocates the bacteria basically - like Dino.
Your sand bed getting any gray spots in it?

 

[rzande1]

Nope. No spots in it at all. Just the little algae that grows ontop which i scoop off. Other than that it looks healthy. I have the sump return basically blowing at sand and mid level. The eheims take care of the top and the hydor does mid to top. Everything is constantly moving.

 

[candycane]

My experience with Dino is that it usually doesn't care. If something blows it off the substrate or rock, it will blow to another area - the only reason I asked about the gray spots was just to see if water movement is getting all over the place.

 

[rzande1]

I dont know if this makes a difference but there used to be sporatic patches of red and black algae before I put in the hydor two days ago. Now it is going away alot.

 

[candycane]

Not to many black algae out there. There are black and gray spots that form and about 99% of the time it is UNDER a rock or on the sand. Will sometimes form a "web" like structure over the rocks but not very often. The black spots might be the same as the gray spots that I was speaking of above.

 

[rzande1]

Well I did lift my rocks before and the area below the sand was all black. What is the black stuff?

 

[candycane]

Bad, LOL. I don't know what kind of tank you have so you might smash your tank bottom if you do this.
If you place a piece of styrofoam BETWEEN the tank and stand, it acts as a shock absorber. Not in the tank or anything. This allows for rock to be stacked directly on the glass or acrylic MOST of the time without smashing through it. What you are looking at is basically "sulfur pockets" that are forming because your rock and or the alga is compacting the sand (above) cutting off the oxygen.

 

[rzande1]

The lfs told me a good idea is to sift through the sand with something once a week and stir it up a bit to keep it well oxygenated to avoid this. My last tank built up huge amounts of black stuff in the sand and I had to do like a 200 percent water change and huge stirup to fix it. How do I fix this? My stand didnt have anything that goes under the glass. It holds it at the frame with cross holders in the middle. The tank has a thick glass tempered bottom.I stack my rock directly on the glass now. The sand fills in around it so I would avoid compression.

 

[candycane]

I don't know all of the inhabitants of your tank? If I did, I would probably still recommend Tongan Strombus Conchs or Cerith Snails. I, myself, don't prefer nassarius vibex snails. But the two mentioned above just go crazy all over the top of your sand bed and then burry themselves in it and crawl around under there too.

 

[rzande1]

This is what I have in the tank right now.
1 Coral Banded shrimp (doesnt touch the algae but rather leftover food so I bet this why he lived while my two fire shrimp and two cleaner shrimp died which touched it)
2 False clownfish which are happy as can be
2 Narcillis snails (started with 12 and so much for that) - btw they dont crawl around alot. They stick in one place waiting for food to find them or they go surfing the glass to the top and then drop all the way down and do it again.
0 turbos (used to have 8 and again so much for that)
Btw the coral that died in my tank was gsp.

 

[candycane]

I would just say you should probably research ways to get rid of dinoflagellates and what they are. Try en' see if the decription of what Dino has matched most of the issues that you might be having in the tank. Your call.

 

[rzande1]

Ok I will try the ph method. My alk is already high too (4.25). I will start adding buffer and bring it up to 8.6 and see what we can do. I will also turndown daytime in the tank so it is running at night with moonlights but will just take natural light during the day. I will go ahead and try and remove as much as I can of this trash in this tank.