Terry B and Beth RE: Hyposalinity

bang guy

Moderator
I've noticed that most of the hobbiests you've helped are not realizing the significance of keeping Salinity at precicely 14ppt. Instead they are fixated on keeping Specific Gravity at 1.009. I not saying you are wording the proceedure incorrectly, I just see examples of your recommended proceedures being applied incorrectly. You two are the disease people I respect most and it's frustrating seeing someone take your recommendations and apply them slightly off.
I only bring up this issue because, as I'm sure you know, a Salinity of 15ppt is not nearly as effective as 14ppt when erradicating Cryptocaryon irritans. Although a good glass Hydrometer is precise enough to maintain a salinity of 14ppt it will not adjust for temperature.
Many fish keepers maintain their water at 77-78F so it's not normally a problem for them. Reef Keepers on the other hand often maintain higher temperatures like 82 - 85F to mimic the natural setting as closely as possible. This is where I've seen some confusion. Very rarely have I seen a person you are trying to help mention temperature, just S.G.
A recent example is timsedwards who is attempting to maintain a S.G. of 1.009 but in his signature it states 82F so the Salinity is 15ppt... too high to be 100% effective.
In another examply you specifically stated 14ppt for the Salinity and the hobbiest, using a Refractometer, adjusted the Salinity to 15ppt instead of 14ppt because they thought 1.009 was the important number even though the tank temp was 83F (to speed the Ick lifecycle).
Just an opinion, but it seems that many hobbiests believe S.G. to be more important than the actual Salinity. Many of the Sharks have attempted to correct this misconception but it keeps falling on deaf ears. If I ask for Salinity I'll invariably get a response of 1.025 and no referencing temperature.
I don't want to step on toes, but would it be great harm to stop referencing 1.009 completely and just stick to Salinity. I believe we will all be better off. If I'm off my rocker feel free to tell me so :) I'm just ranting a bit but I only want hobbiests to be more successful, just like the two of you.
Keep up the great work and thank you for your time!!
Guy
 

timsedwards

Active Member
Hi Guy,
Interesting thoughts there....never thought of it like that.
Thanks for sharing,
Tim.
btw the 82f is the display not the qt
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Hey, Bang, you are absolutely correct in your assessment. Most instruments used by our SWF.com hobbyists measure by SG, though, which is why I have consistently said sg [which has probably been a mistake as you point out]...Terry is more precise and uses salinity. Just not sure what additional barrier would come up for advocating for hypo if we also introduce the conversion issues, temp, etc into the equation. [A lot of hobbyists that come here don't understand the ppt for salt application as it is not commonly referred to in the generalized info sources that your average hobbyist accesses and most LFS-variety measuring instruments don't use ppt measurement.] It may be that we need to add the hyposalinity procedure to the FAQ section and ask members to refer to it...pointing out all of the nuances.
They can follow it or not...rather than getting into trying to do hypo without having adequate equipment. Sweet and simple! Do it right, or not at all.
I have a conversion chart of the temp/sg issue in one of my books. Do you know of website that has it? Perhaps I can throw it up on the BB if I can get a link. Bottom line is, for most hobbyist doing hypo, they really need to go with the refract.
Perhaps Terry wants to do a little hypo procedure write-up for FAQ section?
Additionally, should the ppt measurement for the hobby as a whole be addressed [particularly for reef systems] in terms of educating our general community here? I view salinity just as important as many of the other variables we look at when addressing "water quality". A person using a swing arm is just WAY off the mark---and not just for hypo.
 

timsedwards

Active Member
I think thats a great idea, to put a hypo in the FAQ. Whats wrong with what you wrote for me Beth? I have it saved if you would like it back, and its really in depth and helpful.
Tim.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member

Originally posted by timsedwards
Whats wrong with what you wrote for me Beth? I have it saved if you would like it back, and its really in depth and helpful.
Tim.

Not meaning to pick on you at all Tim, but your question here proves my dilemma with this issue. Bang Guy explained in great detail "what is wrong" with my watered-downed version of the hypo procedure, but the average hobbyist [youself] didn't get it. Thus, that implies the need for more education than just a revamping of the hypo procedure that I commonly give out.
 

bang guy

Moderator
You're right Beth. I can see both sides. On one hand new hobbiests speak Specific Gravity on the other hand Hypo at 15ppt is mostly a waste of time.
Maybe we need to make a concentrated effort to be a PITA and correct people when we see the infamous phrase "My Salinity is 1.024". This is an important concept IMO but is it just going to tick people off? I think it's more than just semantics but I don't want to just be an irritant.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Don't take it personally chap, most hobbiests use S.G. and Salinity interchangeably. Most of the experience Reef People use S.G. just to be understood but the truth is that it's Salinity that matters and S.G. is just a tool that can be used to derive Salinity provided you also know the temp.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Tim, what the point is here, is that my usage of specific gravity....1.009, is not as precise as using salinity which is measured in ppt [the target being 14]. You're standard glass hydrometer that you find at stores does not measure ppt or salinity...it measures specific gravity.
To compound the issue salinity in water is effected by temp.
Here is an article that includes the temperature factor in measuring salinity.
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a.../1/default.asp
This is not as complicated as it sounds/looks.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'm glad you brought this up, Guy, but, on the other hand, I've been posting the hypo procedure on this BB for 3 yrs using sg, and, I think, the sucess rate has been way up there. In fact, aside from Tim, I don't recall any failures that couldn't be attributed to other factors---in fact, I don't really recall any failures with folks who followed my instrcutions. Even with Tim, I don't really know what his failure is about, since he won't post the info.
I guess I need to look around the web for a glass hydrometer that can be recommended for the procedure that maybe has the salinity measurement on it.....certainly nothing found in most LFSs.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Well, there is absolutely no argueing with success :D Not that I was argueing anyway ;) I'm glad.... very glad that S.G. doesn't have that much effect in this case.
 

timsedwards

Active Member
just to say the failure had to be put down to my hydrometer. I can only presume its not as high quality as yours over there. Im actively seeking a new one :)
Tim.
 
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