the baseball Hall of Fame is a JOKE

[pontius]

for the 5th year today, Andre Dawson was passed over for the baseball Hall of Fame. here are his career numbers:
Avg .279, 438 HR, 2774 hits, 1591 RBI
In his day, he was the ONLY player that was known for speed, power, average, and fielding.
here are a first ballot HOFer, Ozzie Smith's career numbers:
Avg .262, 28 HR, 2460 hits, 793 RBI
In HIS day, he was known as a good fielder, nothing more. funny thing is, Dawson's career fielding pct was .983 and Smith's was .978. so basically Dawson is better than Ozzie Smith in EVERY category.
Dawson could have easily got 500 HR and 3000 hits had he not had so many injuries from playing the outfield. Paul Molitor, who had the luxury of not playing any position, was a first ballot pick. Dawson was also as good as his teamate, Ryne Sandberg, who was also a first ballot HOFer.
MLB and the HOF are jokes. I'm done with MLB until Dawson is in the HOF.

 

[fedukeford]

ive never even heard of any of those guys?

 

[ruaround]

The Hawk was a great player...and I agree Pontius...He should be in there
so should Pete Rose the baseball player...not the gambler...

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by fedukeford
ive never even heard of any of those guys?
so you don't know anything about baseball?

 

[shu-perman]

Injuries are part of the game....there are hundreds of players who COULD have had HOF numbers if they didn't get hurt.....to compare a SS's f% to an OF f% is crazy.....the Wizzard(Ozzy Smith for you teenagers) was sick defensively....
You are partially right......the HOF VOTING commitee is the JOKE/PROBLEM
I don't think Dawson should be voted in.....it is the Hall Of Fame not the Hall of Very Good
He played 21yrs and a career .279bave (only 5 of the 21 did he hit over .300)w/ 438 hrs in that span(impressive but not good enough for the HOF) he also didn't win any MVP's
Look at a player like A-Rod who has played(yes different era) 12 yrs and a career .307bave(7 of his 12 over .300) w/ 429 hrs and is still going....he will be a HOFer
Pete Rose should be in the HOF since he is the ALL TIME "HITS KING" w/ 4256 amoung a laundry list of other reasons and they should also have a plague that states that he is banned for life from the game of baseball for gambling as a manager of a MLB team
just my .02

 

[shu-perman]

Originally Posted by fedukeford
ive never even heard of any of those guys?
maybe b/c you were 2 when Dawson retired
look them up.........baseball is about history if you like the sport you should learn about the tradition this game has....it's amazing
check out this site
http://www.baseball-reference.com/

 

[pontius]

are you kidding? Ozzie Smith is by far the most one dimensional player in the HOF. is it the "Hall of Mediocrity"? Dawson's numbers ARE HOF numbers and better than a good number of the players in the HOF. as far as position, there's no outfielder from the 80s that I can think of that was more highly regarded as an outfielder than Dawson. as far as injuries, I'd say a guy like Molitor that racks up 3000 hits as a DH is far less deserving than a guy who has to play the field too.
as I mentioned before, Dawson was the ONLY 4 threat player from the 80s....until Bonds came along. and Dawson didn't need steroids for his numbers.
I forgot about Dawson's awards:
1977 Rookie of the Year
1987 NL MVP (also finished 2nd place two other times)
8 time All Star
8 Gold Gloves
4 Silver Sluggers
other than the All Stars and Gold Gloves, Ozzie Smith has no awards. he finished 2nd to Dawson in the MVP in 87, other than that, he never finished in the top 7.
Ozzie Smith's offensive numbers are atrocious, he's not even in the same league as Dawson. as a fielder, Dawson IS in the same league as Smith. it is a joke that Smith is included in the HOF over Dawson.

 

[ruaround]

Originally Posted by Pontius
. as far as position, there's no outfielder from the 80s that I can think of that was more highly regarded as an outfielder than Dawson. as far as injuries, I'd say a guy like Molitor that racks up 3000 hits as a DH is far less deserving than a guy who has to play the field too.
Dale Murphy... One of the best outfileders ever!!! 2 time NL MVP... is he in the HOF :notsure:

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Shu-perman
He played 21yrs and a career .279bave (only 5 of the 21 did he hit over .300)w/ 438 hrs in that span(impressive but not good enough for the HOF) he also didn't win any MVP's
Look at a player like A-Rod who has played(yes different era) 12 yrs and a career .307bave(7 of his 12 over .300) w/ 429 hrs and is still going....he will be a HOFer
you're wrong here. first, if Dawson hitting over .300 only 4 times isn't good, then how about Smith only hitting over .300 ONCE. second, he DID win an MVP....1987, and finished second two other times. third, 438 HRs isn't HOF worthy? other than Winfield, Murray, and Schmidt, what other player from that era hit more than Dawson? fourth, you can't compare baseball from the 70s and 80s to the game today. completely different game. smaller parks, lower pitching mounds. Puckett, Gwynn, Boggs were the only players from that era that consistently hit .300. Dawson's .279 was considered a high avg for the time, but Smith's .262 would be considered bad for any era. his 28 career HR ain't nothing to brag about either.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by ruaround
Dale Murphy... One of the best outfileders ever!!! 2 time NL MVP... is he in the HOF :notsure:

Murphy was a very good player, but he was no Andre Dawson. Dawson is the most deserving player not in the HOF. then possibly Jim Rice, then Murphy.

 

[ruaround]

Perhaps I am biased about Dale Murphy cuz I'm a Braves fan...

Murphy did lead the league 3 years in HR's, was awarded 5 consecutive Gold Gloves
and was Rookie of the year along with other awrds...
his #'s
R = 1197
H = 2111
2B = 350
3B = 39
HR = 398
RBI = 1266
AVG = .265
based on these #'s Dawson should be in Befor Murphy

 

[shu-perman]

Originally Posted by Pontius
are you kidding? Ozzie Smith is by far the most one dimensional player in the HOF. is it the "Hall of Mediocrity"? Dawson's numbers ARE HOF numbers and better than a good number of the players in the HOF. as far as position, there's no outfielder from the 80s that I can think of that was more highly regarded as an outfielder than Dawson. as far as injuries, I'd say a guy like Molitor that racks up 3000 hits as a DH is far less deserving than a guy who has to play the field too.
as I mentioned before, Dawson was the ONLY 4 threat player from the 80s....until Bonds came along. and Dawson didn't need steroids for his numbers.
I forgot about Dawson's awards:
1977 Rookie of the Year
1987 NL MVP (also finished 2nd place two other times)
8 time All Star
8 Gold Gloves
4 Silver Sluggers
other than the All Stars and Gold Gloves, Ozzie Smith has no awards. he finished 2nd to Dawson in the MVP in 87, other than that, he never finished in the top 7.
Ozzie Smith's offensive numbers are atrocious, he's not even in the same league as Dawson. as a fielder, Dawson IS in the same league as Smith. it is a joke that Smith is included in the HOF over Dawson.
Wait 1 second...I never wrote nor ment to imply that Ozzy should be in the HOF...I just said he was sick defensively.....thats it..and you can't compare a SS's f% to an OF's f% that is apples and oranges...and my bad about missing the 87MVP
438 hrs isn't enough to get into the HOF according to the voters and the so called guide lines.....my thinking is maybe 438 is enough but I still don't think he should have made it this year....Nobody should have made it this year IMO.....the only reason they feel the need to vote someone in everyyear is for the hype and want to host a ceramony...
Originally Posted by Pontius
I'd say a guy like Molitor that racks up 3000 hits as a DH is far less deserving than a guy who has to play the field too.
I agree 100%

 

[pontius]

think about it this way:
the only 3 players to ever hit 500 HR and 3000 hits were Mays, Aaron, and Murray. they're all in the HOF.
the next closest to that mark are Raphael Palmeiro and Barry Bonds.....I think we all know those numbers aren't legit.
after that, I believe it's Dawson. Dawson was the best all around player from the 80s, bar none.
I can agree that Smith was a sick fielder, but Dawson was too. they didn't call him "The Hawk" for no reason. if you let Smith in, you'd have to also let Benito Santiago in because he's the nastiest catcher I've ever seen. same would be said for Roberto Alomar because he's the best fielding 2nd baseman I've seen (though he may get in anyway since his offensive numbers were good too)
Ricky Henderson will be a first ballot HOFer, but he was no Andre Dawson.
Tony Gwynn will be too, but I could make a good argument that he was no Dawson either (though I won't because I'm a big Gwynn fan too).
RUAround, I too am a Braves fan and have many good memories of Murphy. what kills him though was his BA and hits.

 

[shu-perman]

My question is then was Dawson good w/ the sportswriters(it is a popularity contest)...I can't remember(too long ago)....they are the ones who have the majority of the votes...and the theory "well if you let this guy in you have to let that guy in" doesn't fly in my eyes...
I play softball w/ Daryll Evans son(not a big deal just using it to make a point)....he has spoke w/ many coaches who coached Dawson and Rice or coached against them and the general concensus is the sports reporters don't know JACK and they(Rice and Dawson) should be in the HOF based on who is already in....but IMO there are too many players that should not be there and will be there in the future....
Ozzy was a STUD at SS in a time when power wasn't part of the position....he changed/wrote the book as a defensive player for the new age and was a HUGE fan/sportswriter favorite which is the reason he made it(not right but non the less)
Ricky would already be in the HOF if Ricky retired when Ricky should have retired but Ricky still thinks he should be on a ML team b/c Ricky can still play.... 3rd person speakin mofo...
My fav Ricky story:
Ricky(as a Met): hey Olerud, when Ricky played in Toronto, Ricky had a teammate who wore a helmet to play 1B too
John(as a Met): Geez Ricky that was me...

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Shu-perman
My question is then was Dawson good w/ the sportswriters(it is a popularity contest)...I can't remember(too long ago)....they are the ones who have the majority of the votes...and the theory "well if you let this guy in you have to let that guy in" doesn't fly in my eyes...
I play softball w/ Daryll Evans son(not a big deal just using it to make a point)....he has spoke w/ many coaches who coached Dawson and Rice or coached against them and the general concensus is the sports reporters don't know JACK and they(Rice and Dawson) should be in the HOF based on who is already in....but IMO there are too many players that should not be there and will be there in the future....
Ozzy was a STUD at SS in a time when power wasn't part of the position....he changed/wrote the book as a defensive player for the new age and was a HUGE fan/sportswriter favorite which is the reason he made it(not right but non the less)
not sure, he was no Albert Belle though. Eddie Murray was largely disliked by everyone involved in the game, but he was a first ballot HOFer. I know that Andre Dawson does a lot of work with disabled children though, so he does not seem to be a bad guy.
Ozzie was a great fielder at SS, but Dawson was too. in the era between Willie Mays and Andruw Jones, Dawson was the man as far as outfielders were concerned.
Ricky could steal and walk, no doubt on that. but other than being a great leadoff man, he was only so so. should've retired AT LEAST 10 years ago.

 

[shu-perman]

Originally Posted by Pontius
not sure, he was no Albert Belle though. Eddie Murray was largely disliked by everyone involved in the game, but he was a first ballot HOFer. I know that Andre Dawson does a lot of work with disabled children though, so he does not seem to be a bad guy.
Ozzie was a great fielder at SS, but Dawson was too. in the era between Willie Mays and Andruw Jones, Dawson was the man as far as outfielders were concerned.
Eddie Murray hit the almighty threshold 500/3000....that would have even made Belle a lock

 

[pontius]

right. though I don't know for sure though, Dawson was considered in a better light than Murray. so he would get as many points for "coming close" as Murray did for actually reaching the plateau.

 

[ruaround]

Perhaps the popularity question is a good one to raise with Dawson... after a 5th of whiskey and several budweisers Harry Carrey had a hard time pronouncing his name...
I agree Pontius...Dawson should be in the HOF ... but for now don't hold your breath ... we wouldnt want you turnin blue on us

Ricky will be in the HOF ... 1st Ballot mos def!!!

 

[scubadoo]

At least Dawson had a sense of humor....
Chicago Cubs outfielder Andre Dawson paid a $1000 fine for disputing a strike called by umpire Joe West. On the memo line of his check Dawson wrote: “Donation for the blind.”

 

[37g joe]

It upsets me that baseball is not as popular as it used to be I lost interest in my teens after my two favorite baseball players went wacky (daryl strawberry & jose cansaico) I sure know how to pick them. I cant wait until my son is old enough so I can play some baseball with him.