The Cause of Our Seahorses Dieing

[rykna]

We have all been taking huge losses of seahorses. After going back to the basics we came up with these theories:
1.) Lack Of Oxygen
2.) PH fluctuations
3.) Salinity fluctuations
When we set up or cycle our seahorse tank most guidelines follow this course:
1.)Add live sand
Cycle for a month
2.)Add hermit crabs and snails
~some sources suggest adding live rock to help the cycling and add increase the pod population(which is a seahorses' favorite snack)
~some sources also suggest adding macro algae at this point to help increase the pod population
3.)Cycle another 1-2 months
Add macro algae now if not added earlier
Introduce some type of fish; Clown..damsel..etc.
4.)Cycle another 3-4 months
Now you water quality should have stopped cycling and be close/ if not perfect levels of PH Nitra, Nitri, KH, ect.
5.) With 5 months of preparation we can start landscaping the tank and add any additional items such as :macro algae, hitching posts, etc.
And now the Seahorse Tank is ready!!!! You order you chosen seahorse and wait with great anticipation for you new arrival. You jump at anything that sounds like a truck or door bell. Finally, they arrive. After removing the eight layers of tape, styrafoam, and plastic you can finally see your seahorse!!!
Now you have two choices in which to proceed~ Acclimate the seahorse for 1-3 hours and place seahorse into DT, or acclimate the seahorse for 1-3 and place into QT. My prefered choice is to acclimate 1-3 ad put my seahorse into the DT. Now you can sit back and enjoy the beauty and grace of your new seahorse, until 3-4 days latter you get up and find you healthy seahorse on the substrate dead.

Many of us have at least 5 years of saltwater experince; so what in the world went WRONG?????

 

[rykna]

Here is my conclusion:
Most, if not all of us keep a lot of macro algae in our seahorse tanks(ST). The most benifical reasons being Photosynthesis, or the conversion of light energy into chemical energy by living organisms. The macro algae in our tank use the light and also absorb the carbon dioxide out of the water, produce glucose which is used as food for the plant. During this process the plant then releases oxygen back into our tanks. Which is very benificial for our fish.
This is where I found the first problem causer:
Plant only use Photosynthesis during the day when it is light. At night they do not. Which causes oxygen levels to go down and carbon dioxide levels to rise.
When carbon dioxide levels rise it also effects our PH and KH(Water Hardness).
In marine tanks, KH should be between 8-12 or 125.3 and 214.8 parts per million. Over time KH levels will decrease, which causes fluctuations in our salinity. The KH levels and PH levels can be corrected by using a carbonate buffer.
So Far:
1.) Big decrease in oxygen
2.) Fluctuations of KH
3.) Fluctuations of PH
4.) Fluctuations of Salinity
Any changes in a seahorse tank causes stress. Since all of these symptoms cause the other 3 to change. The end result is four major changes in our seahorse tanks.
So how long does this process take and what can we do to prevent it?

 

[rykna]

Salinity changes from several causes. Evaporation, KH, PH, oxygen levels...which were subjects in our debate. One thing I failed to remember is the temperature also affects the salinity.
My 29 gallon display tank salinity: 1.023
My 29 gallon display tank temps:
75 degrees during the day
72 degrees at night.
Cold water causes salinity levels to rise. Which is one of the causes(IMHO) why we find perfectly healthy horses dead in the morning.
This salinity fluctuation is repeated when morning comes; as my tank goes up to 75 degrees
Adding more stress to our seahorses.
How long can seahorses thrive with these levels fluctuating?

 

[rykna]

Here is my current situation:
On February 14th, I purchase my female Kelloggii. I also purchased 12 gallon of premixed salt water from my LFS to help keep the water levels as equal as possible.
When I arrived home. I filled my 1 gallon acclimation tank(AT) with the store bought water. As soon as I had the tank up and running I placed the seahorse into the tank. Her color was bright, she was alert, and ate all of the mysis I placed into her food dish. After getting her settled I proceeded to make a 5% water change in my DT. I topped of the tank with the store bought water.
The next day I compared the levels in the DT to the AT. They were equal. So I proceed to acclimate her for an hour and then placed her into the DT.
Saturday and Sunday she continued to show curiosity, good color, and a healthy appetite. Sunday evening I noticed her sitting on the sand bed from time to time, but her breathing was fine, and her swimming was fine.
Monday morning, I went to check on her and discovered her curled up under the plants in the back. Very pale color and rapid breathing.
I immediately filled the 1 gallon QT with 3/4 store water and 1/4 DT water. I them added methane blue. The only water movement in the QT is a tiny little fluval filter which is powered by a air pump. After and hour she began to breathe easier, but she still sat on the tank bottom. After two more hours. I did several tests on all the tanks.
I set up a five gallon tank, bare bottom, and filled it with store bought water.
Then I measured the PH and KH in all three tanks.
29 gallon:
02/15/08
PH= 8.1
KH= in range 8-12
2/18/08
PH= 8.0
KH= not measurable, after 12 drops it had not turned yellow
1 gallon QT:
02/18/08
PH= 8.0
KH= 11 (in the correct range)
5 gallon QT:
2/18/08
PH= 8.1
KH= 9-10 (in the correct range)
After getting the results from the tanks, I spoke to a employee from my lfs. After talking at length, he concluded that her main problem and her pale coloring was due to lack of oxygen. I moved her into the 5 gallon QT. and added the fluval air bubbler to the 5 gallon. The little seahorse has been in the 5 gallon for and hour now. Her breathing is okay, and her color is slowly coming back.
So from my research and resent experience I have concluded that our biggest problem is oxygen levels.

 

[ci11337]

adding airstone to tank

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by ci11337
http:///forum/post/2478143
adding airstone to tank
Welllllllll....there's a lot more to it then just adding an airstone.
One of the thing I did was to remove all live plants from my DS and put a refugium on my tank. This was suggested my my friend at my lfs, Kim. By placing the live plants plants in the refugium, you remove the extra carbon dioxide produced by the plants at night. The other bonus is when your tank lights go off you turn the refugium lights on, so the plants continue to produce oxygen 24/7.

 

[poniegirl]

Great conversation, Rykna!
I wonder about the fluxuation in temp and salinity. I have not tested my tank for the nightly changes, but will this weekend.
With a heater on the tank, my temp does not flux, stays at 76, though the lights do change the temp (increase) during the daytime by a degree or two....how does this happen with yours at night? I would agree that those 6 degree swings every 12 hours could do some damage.

 

[larrynews]

air stones also help with the gas exchange, since i put mine in my tank is doning much much better, knock on wood.

 

[zeke92]

i think one big reason is the seahorses them selves, thats the conclusion ive come to after two of the three i bought ht eother day died for no reason.
i think the horses health when we buy them have alot to do with it, and the places they came from before the LFS where they were breed. i got tons of O2 and my tank was fine when these two died and they died the same night, i think it has alot to do with there health before we get them.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by PonieGirl
http:///forum/post/2478703
Great conversation, Rykna!
I wonder about the fluctuation in temp and salinity. I have not tested my tank for the nightly changes, but will this weekend.
With a heater on the tank, my temp does not flux, stays at 76, though the lights do change the temp (increase) during the daytime by a degree or two....how does this happen with yours at night? I would agree that those 6 degree swings every 12 hours could do some damage.
Thanks

I hope this really helps clear up our seahorse mystery.
Our living room window looks out onto our front yard. My tank has always sat against the ajascent wall, about 2-3 feet from the bay window. So if you turned right from facing the window you would be looking at my tank. Our furnace isn't in good health either. I have been aware of the drop in temp, but from what I have read that is to be expected. Three degrees wasn't something to worry about. I have always been more concerned about temps rising too high during the day. Which I fiddled with my 90g reef tank. Took me at least a month to get the right hight of my MH lighting unit. The drop in temp is more significant during the winter here in Minnesota. During the summer, my tanks rarely have temp changes. But until I came upon this recent information regarding salinity, PH, and KH fluctuations changing due to temp, I never worried about the temp drop. My main thought was"after all, water temps change in the wild too."
I know my pony tank crash was definitely due to water levels. So my first thought with the horse tanks was to address water quality, not the temp.

 

[poniegirl]

Originally Posted by Rykna
http:///forum/post/2478864
My mai thought was"after all, water temps change in the wild too.
Too true..
However, with our CB SH (they are back on the Do Not Collect list, which has pushed the price through the roof), they are used to, or should be used to, stable environments.
Things that will not change are their internal anatomies....
Possibly something is evolving from the captive breeding process that governs their response to environmental levels. It is difficult to say.

 

[ci11337]

I can't understand why SH's (which are captive bred) are more sensative than wild caught normal fish. Anyway, i'm not buying Kelloggi again. I'm gonna see if any of the LFS's can get kuda, erectus, or comes for a decent price.

 

[larrynews]

well i did by 3 kelloggi to give them another try they are a week in my tank and so far good, on turned red one brown and the other yellow....cross your fingers

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by PonieGirl
http:///forum/post/2479227
Too true..
However, with our CB SH (they are back on the Do Not Collect list, which has pushed the price through the roof), they are used to, or should be used to, stable environments.
Things that will not change are their internal anatomies....
Possibly something is evolving from the captive breeding process that governs their response to environmental levels. It is difficult to say.
I wonder is wild horses have been fully and carefully studied. Could there be as yet an unknown symbiotic relationship horses share with a certain bacteria to say, aid in digestion for instance? Maybe an environmental factor that triggers production of certain enzymes, etc?

 

[veronicad]

Interesting thought about the possible unknown symbiotic relationship with beneficial bacteria in the wild.....
Wondering if dwarves show less sensitivity to fluctuations because their natural environment fluctuates so much on a daily basis?

 

[zeke92]

good point journeyman. that could be something biologists need to look into.

 

[veronicad]

BTW, Rykna, what is the status of your pony tank now? I'm a little out of the loop; is this a recent loss? Do you have any survivors? Sorry, I just started going back to school, so there's little time left for me to enjoy this site at leisure. That's just another reason why I have to wait to start my tank. I'm learning a lot here while I wait!!

 

[poniegirl]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2480964
I wonder is wild horses have been fully and carefully studied. Could there be as yet an unknown symbiotic relationship horses share with a certain bacteria to say, aid in digestion for instance? Maybe an environmental factor that triggers production of certain enzymes, etc?
It is difficult to find any real solid information on their natural habits, or any in-depth sudies at all. Very frustrating.
I think you have a very interesting idea. Given their unique anatomy, it would stand to reason that they would require something specific to make that design work. I know that having watched SH in my own tank for 3 years I could not see half of what they ingested. Mysis, yes, but constantly snicking other "no-seeums". Probably a big stumbling block in study in the wild.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by veronicad
http:///forum/post/2481173
BTW, Rykna, what is the status of your pony tank now? I'm a little out of the loop; is this a recent loss? Do you have any survivors? Sorry, I just started going back to school, so there's little time left for me to enjoy this site at leisure. That's just another reason why I have to wait to start my tank. I'm learning a lot here while I wait!!

Total tank crash...no survivors

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2480964
I wonder is wild horses have been fully and carefully studied. Could there be as yet an unknown symbiotic relationship horses share with a certain bacteria to say, aid in digestion for instance? Maybe an environmental factor that triggers production of certain enzymes, etc?
Very interesting idea JM~ Seahorses' skin is very different from scales. It's more like platelets.
For Example:
The Giant Millipede is exotic pet. Many new owners found what they thought were little parasites crawling all over their new pet, and used many methods to kill these bugs. After many many deaths, people discover that the Millipede depends on these little hosts to clean between their segments. With out them, the Millipede becomes dirty and clogged up and dies.
It would be extremely helpful if we could get a hold of a successful breeder. People are successfully breeding and raising these animals for sale, so they must have some degree of success with health and habitats.